Page 1 of 14 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 136

Thread: If Keima were to be a real person, he would still be good at capturing girls' hearts

  1. #1
    Has a Few Faves
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    In the gaming world
    Posts
    42

    Default If Keima were to be a real person, he would still be good at capturing girls' hearts

    Most readers of this manga will view Keima's character as unrealistic. This view is understandable because he has never even SPOKE to a real girl and spends all his time playing games. Furthermore, Keima's social awareness is beyond hopeless- he doesn't even understand that he is viewed as a problem child by his peers (not until the part with Miss Jun Nagase). Yet, he is able to woo any girl he wants if he is motivated, just because he uses of the knowledge he gets from his gaming while doing almost nothing. This abrupt transition should be impossible in real life. This should be how most people see Keima's character.

    However, I will offer you a view of Keima's character. I believe that Keima's character is actually more realistic than what most readers/viewers (for those who watch the anime) believe it to be. I believe that if Keima were to be a real person, he would be able to capture girls with a similar efficiency. Here is why:

    Keima's obsession with dating sims does in fact shape his personality in a way that gives him exemplary skills with women. Dating Sims are videogames, and in videogames, you do not experience the same amount of emotions that you will experience in a real romance. Therefore, players will try to pave a logical route to the ideal ending. This applies triple for Keima since he is innately a careful person who cannot stand mistakes.

    So what does this have to do with his success with women? The fact that this molds his personality to become logically oriented. In most real life relationships or even social situations, both parties are guided by emotions. Emotionally oriented people tend to make horrible decisions when their emotions take control over them. Furthermore, these people are more prone to "trust their nerves" and "flow with the moment".

    Need an example? Let's say you are a kid who is asked to apologize by your mother. Both parties are emotionally driven at the situation. The emotionally driven mother is just saying that because she wants to "get the problem over with" and because she is angry. An emotionally driven kid will most likely feel both angry and scared at the same time (but not guilty). So what would he do? Simply apologize superficially, which doesn't actually help either party. The mother is deteriorating the kid's morals (arguable), problem solving skills, and their abilities to think for themselves. The kid is simply allowing the mother to do that to the kid AND he isn't getting what he wanted in the first place (getting away with what he's done wrong) just because he got "caught up in the moment". Doesn't that seem kind of similar to Jun's imposing ideals? Need other examples? Just look at Tybalt from Romeo and Juliet. He unwisely lets his anger control him and he challenges people to fights to death although the prince has threatened severe punishment should the 2 families fight again. What happens to Tybalt in the end? He gets killed by Romeo.

    Either way, let's go back to Keima. Since Keima is a logically driven person, he is more capable of doing 2 things: A) understanding another person's feelings, B) being able to understand what happens if you manipulate those feelings in a certain way. Why? Because you are simply more aware of the situation. Keima has demonstrated to be excellent at doing both of these although he is usually detatched from his peers. It doesn't matter whether he never talked to a girl or not. For instance, if he hadn't been able to understand that Kanon's gap in her heart was from the reliance on others to recognize her, he would have never been able to "conquer" her.

    Now I'll give you another example of how being logically oriented could help Keima: let's go to another one of Shakespeare's plays, Othello. Iago is able to manipulate Othello so easily to his advantage merely because he is thinking logically- very similarly to how Keima is able to think. On the other hand, Othello is driven by emotions. It is only mere chance that results in Iago being captured (since Iago actually had to stab someone since things accidently went differently than planned). If things had gone 100% as planned, Iago would've actually been considered guilt-free by law. On the other hand, Othello commits suicide and he kills his wife (Desdemona) in jealousy. All of that happened in a period of a few days. And here's the thing- most Shakespeare critics consider Iago to be a genius! I wouldn't call Iago a dumbass, but he isn't THAT exceptional, this is actually a plan that even I could think of.

    Keima's lack of concern for his social awkwardness could actually be considered a godsend. Let's pretend that Jun Nagase was right- Keima is playing games because he wants to hide from reality and because he is outcasted. Then, Keima would be a needy character. Keima will try to fix his habits and will desperately try to "rectify" his situation once he "snaps". But those are motives driven by emotions and if he were to have such motives in the first place, it is likely that the actions he will take are driven by emotions. Should that happen, he will only appear to be "awkward", "insecure", "submissive", and "supplicative" just as most others would if they were in the same situation. Why? Because Keima will see those who are more sociable as "higher than him" and he will lower himself to them by "trying to look polite". Those are qualities that are described above generally NOT desirable.

    In short, being able to think logically gives the girl he is wooing room to feel emotionally. Keima can always provide "good memories" and "super-desirable-man events" in a pinch.

    Another godsend Keima has that most other people don't have is the ability to act. Research shows that communication is 70% body language, 20% voice tonality, and 10% words. That simply means that communication is not meant to spread ideas but is actually developed through evolution to spread emotions. Keima, can manipulate all 3 of those components at will. Now, then the question will be: "then why doesn't everyone manipulate such things?". The truth is, these are not easy things to fake. There are people who have to TRAIN FOR YEARS in order to reach the same level as Keima (who acquired it genetically).

    But what does the paragraph above have to do with catching girls? Lots. The human subconscious mind is several times more powerful than the conscious mind. Body language and voice tonality are both processed in the subconscious mind. That is why in real life, if an awkward and insecure guy is seen by a stranger, the stranger will immediately know that he is awkward and insecure before even one word is spoken. Not so much for Keima. Keima can go up to a stranger and look like he has been the most popular boy in his class or can look like a movie star who everyone is after. No one who first sees him will think of him as "Otamegane" (if he wants not to be labeled as such) This ability is something that only a few people actually have.

    In short, Keima has the rare (and incredibly useful) ability to manipulate who he actually appears to be.

    This combined with his logical way of thinking make his routes much more easier for him. If someone who didn't have this ability was to try one of Keima's routes, they would fail miserably even if they followed it to the letter. Why? Because that person will stutter and blush. He will cover his face with his hands. The girl he is trying to woo is no longer looking at a masculine hero but is now looking at a pitiful dog.

    Would it still be realistic if Keima was playing a game in front of the girl he is trying to woo? Absolutely. Keima's PFP (which he brings with him everywhere he goes) is actually good for capturing girls (although the manga severely exaggerates this). Although Keima is adept at acting, he is not flawless. The PFP can allow him to make minor mistakes in his acting without being noticed.

    If you observe Keima carefully, it should be clear that he puts a LOT of effort into his conquests. He thinks up of different possibilities and reactions his target may have.

    My conclusion is that should someone like Keima truly exist, he would have similar success that Keima has if he were to be thrown in the same situation.

    What do you guys think about my conclusion?
    Last edited by thecapturinggodkeima; 07-18-2013 at 06:38 PM.

  2. #2
    One of The Followers kyou13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    103

    Default

    ...I won't say a real Keima can't "capture" him. There's a chance he can do it just like in the manga. Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. But one thing I can say for sure, Keima never seems real to me.

    The knowledge he gets from galge games and the amount of games he plays... => doesn't seem real
    The way he plans out his route covering almost all possibilities... => doesn't seem real
    The nearly perfect acting, which you claimed he got genetically, doesn't seem real either. I mean the fact that he has those skills naturally itself...seems unreal.

    Yeah, a person just like Keima may make conquests in real life, but that person's personality will always stay not real to me.

  3. #3
    Has a Few Faves
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    In the gaming world
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyou13 View Post
    ...I won't say a real Keima can't "capture" him. There's a chance he can do it just like in the manga. Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. But one thing I can say for sure, Keima never seems real to me.

    The knowledge he gets from galge games and the amount of games he plays... => doesn't seem real
    The way he plans out his route covering almost all possibilities... => doesn't seem real
    The nearly perfect acting, which you claimed he got genetically, doesn't seem real either. I mean the fact that he has those skills naturally itself...seems unreal.

    Yeah, a person just like Keima may make conquests in real life, but that person's personality will always stay not real to me.
    Well, actually, Keima's knowledge on girls isn't as good as you may think it is. Keima's success in most of the girls is because they fit a stereotype of a certain type of person in a school (ex. Kanon is an idol). Keima has difficulty with normal-ish (but still unrealistic girls) like Chihiro. If Keima were to ACTUALLY try a realistic girl, he would have a lot more trouble than he did with Chihiro, where he can't define any parameters. His videogame knowledge only helps him because of LUCK. Most of his targets conform to that knowledge he has (ex. Ayumi tying her hair to show she is serious).

    But even so, Keima's level of empathy is surprisingly brilliant. Keima may be a master of changing his body language/voice tonality, but it is also hinted that Keima is a master of READING other people's body language/voice tonality. There are some basic body languages that anyone can understand, like being sarcastic if someone is smiling and laughing but the words are out of context. However, there are more difficult-to-read cues which cannot be assessed as easily which are actually triply important in a conquest. This seems to help him think of all possibilities since he understands the emotions the girl may face.

    Putting that aside, I do believe that there is actually a way for Keima's superb acting to exist. It could be possible that Keima actually spent time in a drama club or something like when he was younger (maybe).
    Last edited by thecapturinggodkeima; 06-20-2013 at 06:34 AM.

  4. #4
    One of The Followers
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    111

    Default

    I don't think that if Keima was real he would go around making grls fall for him: his being unrealistic or not is irrelevant, for in RL we don't have demons and girls are not such cliched stereotypes. So, on the premise that he lacks both suitable targets and motivation, he will grow to live in a 2D fantasy world, but having a extremely well paid job at making games.

    In his mind life probably would b sweeter that way. XD

  5. #5
    Has a Few Faves
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    In the gaming world
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicaalterego01 View Post
    I don't think that if Keima was real he would go around making grls fall for him: his being unrealistic or not is irrelevant, for in RL we don't have demons and girls are not such cliched stereotypes. So, on the premise that he lacks both suitable targets and motivation, he will grow to live in a 2D fantasy world, but having a extremely well paid job at making games.

    In his mind life probably would b sweeter that way. XD
    True dat. But we're talking about if he's thrown in the same situation. Let's pretend that demons DID exist but the girls he are trying to help are NOT the cliched stereotyped.

    He'd have a tougher time and understanding the parameters of these girls would be harder, just like a real life romance. However, Keima would still be able to pull it off. How? His ability to emphasize/read voice tonality and body language is exceptional. Keima could still conquer a realistic girl, but the rate at he makes progress is slowed down quite greatly since he has to get to know the girl's basic personality- he just can't simply assume the girl has X characteristics and then find out the problem from there.

    Keima is actually growing to accept the real world. Ever since the Old Conquest arc, he actually puts his games down for days at a time so that his conquest can go smoothly. He doesn't seem to be ADDICTED to the games since he can actually do such. Keima changes a little bit after each conquest and the amount of effort he puts in each conquest increases as each conquest passes. It may be possible that by the end of the series, Keima will "graduate" from games (just like he claims to Jun Nagase) and pick one girl out of the 12 or so choices he has. But that is a mere theory, so I can't really consider this an argument, but that's what I believe will happen to him. But if I'm wrong, Keima is simply wasted potential (his abilities are something that 9.9999/10 of us don't have and 9.995/10 of us aren't even aware of).

  6. #6
    One of The Followers
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thecapturinggodkeima View Post
    True dat. But we're talking about if he's thrown in the same situation. Let's pretend that demons DID exist but the girls he are trying to help are NOT the cliched stereotyped.

    He'd have a tougher time and understanding the parameters of these girls would be harder, just like a real life romance. However, Keima would still be able to pull it off. How? His ability to emphasize/read voice tonality and body language is exceptional. Keima could still conquer a realistic girl, but the rate at he makes progress is slowed down quite greatly since he has to get to know the girl's basic personality- he just can't simply assume the girl has X characteristics and then find out the problem from there.

    Keima is actually growing to accept the real world. Ever since the Old Conquest arc, he actually puts his games down for days at a time so that his conquest can go smoothly. He doesn't seem to be ADDICTED to the games since he can actually do such. Keima changes a little bit after each conquest and the amount of effort he puts in each conquest increases as each conquest passes. It may be possible that by the end of the series, Keima will "graduate" from games (just like he claims to Jun Nagase) and pick one girl out of the 12 or so choices he has. But that is a mere theory, so I can't really consider this an argument, but that's what I believe will happen to him. But if I'm wrong, Keima is simply wasted potential (his abilities are something that 9.9999/10 of us don't have and 9.995/10 of us aren't even aware of).
    In that case I agree he could seduce women... the only thing you forgot to mention is his lack of morals when it comes to lying, because he is cunning an stalkerish... as soon as he doesn't get discovered on that he is a keeper XD

  7. #7
    Has a Few Faves
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    In the gaming world
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicaalterego01 View Post
    In that case I agree he could seduce women... the only thing you forgot to mention is his lack of morals when it comes to lying, because he is cunning an stalkerish... as soon as he doesn't get discovered on that he is a keeper XD
    I don't think that being cunning and stalkerish is actually a bad thing to have in a relationship- if it is concealed correctly (as you said). The reason for cunning is explained above. The reason why being stalkerish could be beneficial is because one could actually gain information he would never have gained otherwise.

    Actually, I take back what I said, it is actually still ok if Keima was caught being superficial/stalker-ish- if Keima is caught after he goes to a certain stage in wooing a girl. Once he has enough of that girl's trust, he can use his logic to make what should be seen as creepy seem like a good/desirable thing. What I would do is say something like "I have no justifiable reason for doing this, but I am doing this because I'm interested in you."

    Why would I say this? It shows the girl 2 things: 1) To remind her I'm interested in her and 2) Saying something like that can create trust because it shows that I am actually ready to be honest about it and I am ready to take responsibility for my actions. This COULD be seen as creepy, but that's only if I say this in the beginning of an interaction (when the girl barely knows me), later in the interaction, I may even want to CREATE THIS SCENARIO ON PURPOSE.

  8. #8
    A Hidden Hikikomori
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,660

    Default

    The more important question to me is, Would Keima be able to KEEP a girlfriend after capturing her? After all, it's not capturing a girl but staying on good terms with her that counts. Do you realize, Keima has absolutely NO knowledge or experience when it comes to what to do after a conquest! Not in games, since he 'reaches the ending' and not in Real Life either, since the girls get that convenient amnesia! And since the goddess quest involved romancing them again to power them up, it's not really getting along with them in a continuing relationship.

    If you look at the chapter where the goddesses had their sleepover, it becomes clear that Keima was planning on letting them find out that he was five-timing each of them, with the hope that they would all reject him afterward! In other words, he doesn't want an ongoing relationship and hopes they won't want one, either!

    So, if he wasn't forced to by the collar, what would be the POINT of capturing girls? He doesn't need to get to know what Real girls are like, any more. He already likes game girls better.

    If you ask me, the most likely way that Keima would develop any kind of appreciation for Real girls is when he sees their mortal frailty, their human weakness... like when he had to hold Chihiro when she was afraid as the vintage goons were hunting them (flag 185, Shadow City) and when she was disappointed that he told her she didn't have a goddess after all (Flag 189, It's all right.)

    And for that, he's got to turn off the PFP. Because when the game is over, Real Life is the only way he will ever do what he has said he wants to do so badly -- go 'beyond' the ending.

    That's my hope for Keima... he will find Real life messy and unsatsifying... but more challenging and interesting than games could ever be. And he will find Real girls confusing and tough to handle... but more challenging and interesting than games could ever be. Because they are just like him: they have a life that goes on, beyond the ending, after the game is turned off.

    If he stops judging real girls by game standards, he may find that he has more compassion for them. He may even find that they have sympathy for him in his weaknesses, and don't condemn him or laugh at him too much.

    He might even find out that being captured isn't so bad after all... not like being sealed in a coffin, but more like putting on a nice warm coat on a cold day.

  9. #9
    Has a Few Faves
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    In the gaming world
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FROM1toN View Post
    The more important question to me is, Would Keima be able to KEEP a girlfriend after capturing her? After all, it's not capturing a girl but staying on good terms with her that counts. Do you realize, Keima has absolutely NO knowledge or experience when it comes to what to do after a conquest! Not in games, since he 'reaches the ending' and not in Real Life either, since the girls get that convenient amnesia! And since the goddess quest involved romancing them again to power them up, it's not really getting along with them in a continuing relationship.

    If you look at the chapter where the goddesses had their sleepover, it becomes clear that Keima was planning on letting them find out that he was five-timing each of them, with the hope that they would all reject him afterward! In other words, he doesn't want an ongoing relationship and hopes they won't want one, either!

    So, if he wasn't forced to by the collar, what would be the POINT of capturing girls? He doesn't need to get to know what Real girls are like, any more. He already likes game girls better.

    If you ask me, the most likely way that Keima would develop any kind of appreciation for Real girls is when he sees their mortal frailty, their human weakness... like when he had to hold Chihiro when she was afraid as the vintage goons were hunting them (flag 185, Shadow City) and when she was disappointed that he told her she didn't have a goddess after all (Flag 189, It's all right.)

    And for that, he's got to turn off the PFP. Because when the game is over, Real Life is the only way he will ever do what he has said he wants to do so badly -- go 'beyond' the ending.

    That's my hope for Keima... he will find Real life messy and unsatsifying... but more challenging and interesting than games could ever be. And he will find Real girls confusing and tough to handle... but more challenging and interesting than games could ever be. Because they are just like him: they have a life that goes on, beyond the ending, after the game is turned off.

    If he stops judging real girls by game standards, he may find that he has more compassion for them. He may even find that they have sympathy for him in his weaknesses, and don't condemn him or laugh at him too much.

    He might even find out that being captured isn't so bad after all... not like being sealed in a coffin, but more like putting on a nice warm coat on a cold day.
    It's true that Keima's games don't go further than the very start of a relationship- in Keima's eyes, a relationship is the final level of romance. This is an unconventional view since most people consider a relationship THE START of romance. Almost all games, manga, and anime are like so. The only thing that isn't like so that I can think of is Amagami SS+ (they show what happens AFTER Junichi gets in a relationship with each girl). The only game I can think of where Keima actually maintains a relationship is the game with Yokkyun (I THINK, I'm not too sure though).

    But I actually do believe that Keima is capable of maintaining a relationship, but only if he becomes interested in real girls. Here is the logic behind this:

    This is my theory, a relationship needs a few things to stay alive: attraction (just simply love), trust, favorable circumstances, interest (from both parties), and outside conflict (optional and doesn't need to happen all the time). The reason for attraction should be obvious. Trust because if there is no trust involved, then it'll just be 2 strangers who just met with strong feelings for each other. Favorable circumstances because if the woman's father holds a revolver to Keima's head and say "You go near my daughter and I'll blast your brains out", then Keima will probably want to deal with the guy first before hitting on his daughter. Interest is usually made from a combination of the 3 things mentioned above- but a relationship without interest is the same as not being in one. Conflict is optional and is fine if it only happens occasionally (and could be considered part of favorable circumstances). Solving an outside conflict appropriately is a good way to keep trust, attraction, and favorable circumstances alive should they ever falter.

    Keima has already demonstrated that he can create attraction and trust easily and at any given time (because of his acting, empathy, and logically oriented personality). Keima has shown that he can mold circumstances so that they are favorable in a sense- or at least so that they appear superficially favorable. Keima is able to solve most outside conflicts easily (only something like a freak accident or being given capital punishment is an exception). The thing that he lacks is interest, since he is only attracted to game girls. But should Keima become GENUINELY interested in a real girl (ex. react when he sees Haqua in his toilet or something), then maintaining a healthy relationship is possible- and maybe even easy- for him.
    Last edited by thecapturinggodkeima; 06-21-2013 at 05:08 AM.

  10. #10
    For The Oath Sworn Through Courage And Love! genesic123's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Somewhere,in a Sea of Stars
    Posts
    378

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thecapturinggodkeima View Post
    True dat. But we're talking about if he's thrown in the same situation. Let's pretend that demons DID exist but the girls he are trying to help are NOT the cliched stereotyped.


    No normal girl(chihiro doesn't count) could have a weiss really,For the weiss to exist there must be a central conflict,a gap,and it must be able to grow.If the girls aren't partiulary passionate about anything(normal),there will be no incentive for the weiss and keima would have no reason to conquer her.As long as there is passion,they will fit into some gaming logic like Chihiro,even though no dating sim about her type has been made.

    Sure the girls are based on harem sterotypes,but what is so out- of- this- world about a girl wanting to run,or read anyways.Unlike other harems do show some depth to them,like their interactions with their side characters and the whole 2B to show that the girls aren't in an anime only situation.Besides,was it really that easy for keima?So I would say that it wouldn't be necessarily much harder in our real.

    I would like to add something here as well,keima is not entirely depenant on dating sims logic,thats the main reason why he finds sucess.TWGOK understood that the idea was wierd so in order to make it work,a lot of thought had to be put into the execution,like how he deviated from his traditional dating sims route to conquer kanon.Its not that he could just spam the knoledge,or else there would be zero tension and conflict in the arcs,it would be simply watching a machine at work which was fortunately not the case.

    He is probably only harem lead has has a real shot at getting girls,without the typical plot armor or Gary Gtu logic or over- the- top fourth wall logic,cause we really can see the effort and progression that he puts in and the qualities.His skills aren't just somthing to take at face value.

    However I think current keima can actually conquer Real girls,now that he is a battle hardened veteren of the Real.He stopped referencing his dating sims knowledge,and started relying on his own power.

    I shudder to think of a real life keima though.All the avliable girls will go to him,and all avaliable men could be Forever Alone.But that would entirely depend on his willingness to be involved in the Real.
    Last edited by genesic123; 06-21-2013 at 02:33 AM.
    Vintage...Did you forget?....Victory goes to....THOSE WITH LOVE!

    ''I have an ideal!an ideal that will pierce through reality!''

Page 1 of 14 12311 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •