Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 72

Thread: The TWGOK villans Thread

  1. #1
    For The Oath Sworn Through Courage And Love! genesic123's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Somewhere,in a Sea of Stars
    Posts
    375

    Default The TWGOK villans Thread

    We really should start appreciating them more.

    The thing that makes them unique is they are not going to kill for the sake of killng.

    They have a goal in mind and genuinely work towards it.

    Even now they seems to show those qualities.

    They want to revive old hell,(bring back the old ways)but i'm still eager to know Heven's inaction and wheather there is more to the villans.

    Maybe since this arc is called the "Heart Of Jupiter" the TWGOK God will soon arrive.

    Theories for heven and the villlans anyone?
    Vintage...Did you forget?....Victory goes to....THOSE WITH LOVE!

    ''I have an ideal!an ideal that will pierce through reality!''

  2. #2
    A Hidden Hikikomori
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    Hey, I'm glad you started this thread. We don't know enough about the big bads. What were the loose souls like when they were ruling hell? How did Vintage and Satyr get started? What is the connection between them? Why are there no men in hell? Did they all get put in concentration camps and killed off? Who would do that? Who started the Almagemachina War? Did the newdevils rebel, or were the olddevils trying to kill them off?

    I always wanted to know more about Fiore. (She's incredibly cute, to me, even though I wouldn't want to spend time with her.) If nothing else, I admire the purity of her dedication to evil. (As much as I like Elsee, I can't get into funny, cutesy, incompetent demons.) Lune scares the crap out of me. I don't even wan to know how she got to be the way she is.

    And the strange thing is, I could see guys being head-over-heels in love with either of them, but suffering because they KNOW they can never be together with them in any way, because they just CANT BE TRUSTED!

    So many things to discuss...!

  3. #3
    N3wb Renial's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    8

    Default

    I admire the purity of her dedication to evil.
    I share this point. That's quite a disturbing thing, to see devils that seem to have completely forgotten evil. We know that, first, hell's goal was to prepare, tu purge the soul in order to let heaven to bring new life to these souls. But in this world, there is no evil, there is no good, only a natural order (which doesn't match with the common idea of devils).
    THEN the devils "became" evil and tried to rule the world, and from this natural order came a manichean world, with evil runaway spirits, and good new devils and heaven.

    To my mind this is perfectly normal that this former desire still persists in the spirit of some new devils, since the world became manichean. Lune is a good example, and I think she is quite interesting (I'm less interested in Fiore, who is way weaker, even if her feelings are strong). When there is a good side, there is necessarily an evil side. This is a cycle : because of Satyr and Vintage position, newdevils have to be good, and because they are good the "natural order" cannot came back.

    But we mustn't forget the newdevils themselves, and their commanders, who want to use godesses as weapon. Are they realyy evils ? What are their real link with heaven, which is still inactive ? Why this inaction ? Maybe the loss of the godesses was a too big loss, that they cannot trust anybody, that they aren't strong enough to intervene...

    Ohter questions that Fromiton raised are interesting : why are there no men in new hell ? Maybe there were in old hell, or maybe it's incompatible with the idea of natural order (like in Claymore, men listen to much to their craving for power, for domination, which means that only women can go on with this mission). Or maybe it's simply to match with the idea of harem (it is easier indeed, but I don't think so, Wakaki is thiner than that).

    Indeed, the question relating to villans raises a lot of interesting questions.

  4. #4
    A Hidden Hikikomori
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    Oh, incidentally, way back at the beginning of the series, I wondered if there would be a surprise ending where Elsee was really evil and was stringing Keima along the whole time. Like if his collar was fake, and she was just pulling a scam to get hers off and onto him? Or if she was only pretending to be incompetent and would gradually seem more and more competent until he trusted her and she would backstab him? Or something like that.

    I even thought that Keima might have been an escaped spirit that was reincarnated in human form from his mother Mari, and he was the one Elsee was really trying to capture all along. But the series has now gone on too long for any of these to be reasonable possibilities. I just mention them for everybody's amusement.

  5. #5
    Has a Few Faves Gloomy Person's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by genesic123 View Post
    We really should start appreciating them more.

    The thing that makes them unique is they are not going to kill for the sake of killng.

    They have a goal in mind and genuinely work towards it.

    Even now they seems to show those qualities.

    They want to revive old hell,(bring back the old ways)but i'm still eager to know Heven's inaction and wheather there is more to the villans.

    Maybe since this arc is called the "Heart Of Jupiter" the TWGOK God will soon arrive.

    Theories for heven and the villlans anyone?
    I love Twgok, but it's villians aren't paticulary great owing to the lack of screen time and developement.

    Weiss- Motives aren't so clear, and their personalities and intentions haven't relly been fleshed out beyone being reborn.

    Vintage- Seemingly generic motives but them being pawns was an interesting twist.

    Fiore- Incarnation of the stupid evil trope.

    Lune- A good enigmatic minon, but lacks enough appearances to really be called good.

    Ghosts of Old Hell and Satyr- Enigmatic and interesting but again not really fleshed out enough yet to be called good villains.

    Heaven is probably undergoing an energy crisis simillar to New Hell, , New Hell relies on technology and lives meagerly compared too Old Hell, Heaven may in chaos or not in state to react

  6. #6
    For The Oath Sworn Through Courage And Love! genesic123's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Somewhere,in a Sea of Stars
    Posts
    375

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloomy Person View Post
    I love Twgok, but it's villians aren't paticulary great owing to the lack of screen time and developement.
    True,but all I said is what makes them stand out from most anime/manga villans.They could get their screen time.

    Demons in TWGOK aren't naturally evil.They aren't to be mixed up with the common idea of them.


    The New and old hell divide is somewhat political.

    Old-"We want to bring back to glorious old ways"

    New-"We want to move forward"

    One does not simply kill an ideology(that is something that true in the Real,how will keima deal with this.)

    Will Shiratori launch an Attack On TitanAttack on the Weiss?His story doesn't seem to be over yet.

    I think that Dokuro has connections with Heven.Dokuro may have made the orb,but the ship?
    Last edited by genesic123; 05-28-2013 at 01:56 AM.
    Vintage...Did you forget?....Victory goes to....THOSE WITH LOVE!

    ''I have an ideal!an ideal that will pierce through reality!''

  7. #7
    One of The Followers kyou13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Renial View Post
    I share this point. That's quite a disturbing thing, to see devils that seem to have completely forgotten evil. We know that, first, hell's goal was to prepare, tu purge the soul in order to let heaven to bring new life to these souls. But in this world, there is no evil, there is no good, only a natural order (which doesn't match with the common idea of devils).
    THEN the devils "became" evil and tried to rule the world, and from this natural order came a manichean world, with evil runaway spirits, and good new devils and heaven.

    To my mind this is perfectly normal that this former desire still persists in the spirit of some new devils, since the world became manichean. Lune is a good example, and I think she is quite interesting (I'm less interested in Fiore, who is way weaker, even if her feelings are strong). When there is a good side, there is necessarily an evil side. This is a cycle : because of Satyr and Vintage position, newdevils have to be good, and because they are good the "natural order" cannot came back.

    But we mustn't forget the newdevils themselves, and their commanders, who want to use godesses as weapon. Are they realyy evils ? What are their real link with heaven, which is still inactive ? Why this inaction ? Maybe the loss of the godesses was a too big loss, that they cannot trust anybody, that they aren't strong enough to intervene...

    Ohter questions that Fromiton raised are interesting : why are there no men in new hell ? Maybe there were in old hell, or maybe it's incompatible with the idea of natural order (like in Claymore, men listen to much to their craving for power, for domination, which means that only women can go on with this mission). Or maybe it's simply to match with the idea of harem (it is easier indeed, but I don't think so, Wakaki is thiner than that).

    Indeed, the question relating to villans raises a lot of interesting questions.
    I actually always like mixing villains in the supposed-good guys and vice versa. That makes it... well, less obvious. The enemy in the shadow somehow sounds more interesting.
    And there's always a possibility that new hell devils aren't devils, just "sth" that called themselves devils. The only real devil are old hell devils. (like someone has theorized new devils are dead girls made into devils, etc) But then it's gonna be confusing. Nora and Fiore are supposed to be in old hell family, nevertheless, they look exactly like low class devils (Haqua, Elsie,... yeah, except for the horn).

    Uhm, is there any chane the mastermind behind new hell is heaven? I mean, there might be several races in old hell: weiss, noble like Nora, and "things" like Dokurou,... Then a power struggle exploded. One side is Satyr-pure evil, the other is Dokurou side, which is backed by heaven. After the war, heaven wanted to seize the chance and take control of hell, but couldn't. So now they turn to back Satyr in this war to creat chaos and take hell for themselves. That's why they don't make a move, but choose to observe things.

    If the translation's not wrong, then there're men in hell, at least old hell.

  8. #8
    A faithful believer D47.Biryu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    My laptop.
    Posts
    281

    Default

    A little thought:

    Perhaps the real villain behind this story hasn't even shown up yet, despite Dokurou's revelation. What if all of Hell, New and Old alike, is being controlled by some much more hidden force? You might ask, who, or what, could possible do this. The answer might very well be: The Fallen Angels.

    I don't have to directly name anyone, but perhaps the two most famous figures there are Satan and Lucifer. Okay, turning back to the theory, it's not uncommon for those Heaven adversaries to seek for retribution. The fact that they once are exalted angels now being degraded by whatever judgement is a viable option. Previously, they cannot fight Heaven by their own. However, New Hell emerged, and is far from stable because of its youth. What could possibly be a better chance?

    Also based on the real villain being some sort of twisted angel, another theory might be an angel not being selected as the member of the Jupiter Sister. She (preferably "she", that is) might be very talented, yet some sort of bad luck or arrangement has prevented her from her deserved position. Worse, she might be betrayed by her sisters (literally) by having Jupiter receiving all sort of false impression about her. Similarly, she's punished, and also seek for revenge.

    If this is the case, then we might explain why the objective of those villains so far is just to CONFINE the Goddesses (rather than KILLING them like Fiore once did) in order to take them as hostage and pressure Heaven.

    What do you think ?
    Last edited by D47.Biryu; 05-29-2013 at 01:50 PM.
    "An imperfect reality, a perfect game." - Keima Katsuragi

  9. #9
    Covert Agent Specialist foldguy24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,876

    Default

    This might sound a bit... off but I think that there's a possibility that all of the villains that we know so far might be the physical manifestations of Keima's mind.

    If you think about it, virtually EVERY single villain that we saw is guaranteed to have an archetype within Keima's galge logic. Examples include Lune being a psychotic yandere with a fascinatination of being tortured, Fiore being the typical bland mook evil character, Vintage agents being the standard creeps, Kayoko's ghost being the scary boss monster, etc. If we tie this one up to Keima calling himself "God", this will somehow make sense. As we know it, "God" is a powerful entity that is omnipresent and, the most important, the CREATOR of all things. As I've said, all of the villains that appeared thus far will fit into one of Keima's archetypes at least that it makes me wonder if Keima is the one manifesting them from the get go but he doesn't know it (the same way Haruhi does). Oh yeah, Diana mentioned something about Keima being the center of it all which just makes me a whole lot curious.

    Sounds crazy isn't it?
    The thing that I learned with every manga and anime I read and watched:

    Never trust a minor character who appears in the story often with no reason at all. They're the biggest shockers ever.

    Chihiro fans will like this:


    Note: The link in this spoiler is on Fanfiction.net

  10. #10
    A Hidden Hikikomori
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,656

    Default

    foldguy24: but then, Keima would have to face up to the fact that HE, not the "evil villain Fiore of vintage", stabbed Kanon!

    If he can't even accept bland, dull Reality, and still wants to call himself god, how can he reconcile that with the inescapable fact of evil and suffering -- and not blame himself for it?

    It is precisely BECAUSE there is a Reality that does not conform to Keima's wishes which proves he is not god (perhaps that's why he resents Reality so much.) Keima is not the Author of history.

    It might be better to say that the big bad whoever it is, has been drawing upon those archetypes from Keima's unconscious, and Keima has been used. (He wouldn't like that, but it would be better than being responsible for it all.)

    I don't believe that Keima has the power unconsciously, or he would have unconsciously used it to change Reality before this.

    And I doubt that Keima would have allowed himself to suffer embarrassment and physical pain in the pursuit of Real girls, if that's what he unconsciously desired. He could (unconsciously) have desired and achieved an ideal result immediately without all that. Keima doesn't have that much willingness to defer gratification.

    To quote a famous scientist: "Your theory is crazy... but not crazy enough to be true." Sorry.

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •