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Thread: So Natsu... why Maruo?

  1. #11
    Always reading Celianna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyien View Post
    Why not? Just because you find him boring?
    Did I say Maruo is boring? No. However, he and Natsu are very different, while Maruo is the Nice Guy who gravitates towards girls who are outgoing (notice how he doesn't pay attention to the other girl who has a crush on him), but Natsu in turn would gravitate towards guys with self confidence. Something which Maruo lacks.

    Even if you donīt see any good qualities in him, many of them do. Natsu certainly did since she asked him to be her boyfriend. Even the glasses girl does since she is in love with him.
    His good quality being what? That he works hard? Everyone can work hard, which is not exactly a selling point, but one that is most often used in shounen romance manga. Or any romance manga, really. Or that he's very analytic? Something which Natsu doesn't seem impressed by, and actually finds it kind of weird (since she plays on instinct).

    So, just because they havenīt shared "important moments" together itīs impossible for Natsu to like him?
    I have read about people who have only known each other trough facebook, fallen in love with each other and then married.
    They had no "important moments" between them since they had never even met before they got married. but they still fell in love and they still married.
    As I said in the above comment before, Natsu liking him has a very low probability of happening (and I mean having a random crush on him). However, people can still like someone if they spend time together and find out more about the other. However, you don't understand what I mean by important moments. It's about sharing intimacy. I've had a long term relationship started from online chatting. We exchanged plenty of chats and became very intimate, talking to each other about pretty much everything. I didn't mean anything 'physical'. We don't see this happen between them at all. They sometimes meet up and talk about tennis, and that's it.

    The closest thing has to be the scene where they went to karaoke I think, and that's just one moment.

    If it happened off-screen, that's such a cop-out, and no one would really 'get' why they like each other if you just handwave it and pretend they spent more time together without actually showing it. This is badly developed romance.

    A realistic romance is not something like those over dramatic Mangaīs you seems to read, they are actually more like this one. Why is it unrealistic? We donīt see everything the characters do at any time.
    Were this realistic, Maruo wouldn't 'get the girl' just because he's a nice guy and works hard. Google 'Nice Guys' and read some articles about them. Actually, I'll save you the hassle of googling, and give you a link. They don't get the girl. Sometimes they do, but it's not with the type of girl Natsu is. He'd instead go with the glasses girl, who is shy, insecure, and readily available.

    Also, I want to address your 'over dramatic manga's you seem to read' point. I read lots of genres, and I've read loads and loads of manga tagged with romance. I hate mostly all of them. The ones I have in my signature are the only ones I like, which I find pretty realistic in terms of romance development (with the exception of Ookami Lover). Look them up sometime, and you'll see what I mean about 'sharing important moments' together.

    Thatīs because you have the completely wrong idea about what romance is...
    Please do not insult me and assume what you think my idea of romance is when I have mentioned no such thing. Don't make assumptions.

    Then why are you here? why are you reading it?
    Just because I disagree with how realistic this pairing is, doesn't mean I don't like the actual manga. And uhh, like you said below, it's a tennis manga! Not a romance one. I definitely don't read it for the romance.

    Thatīs because this is a tennis Manga. If you hadn't noticed....

    The romance is only secondary in this Manga.
    Why yes, I've noticed this is a sports manga. I don't care much for the romance part at all, I wish they left it out to be honest, because it's not very well developed, and because the characters themselves aren't well developed either, so I couldn't care less about them and their romantic endeavors.

    I like Baby Steps, I just wish it would also put more importance on developing characters, than always going in-depth about the tennis. The tennis is grounded in reality, their romance, not so much, it's dull because yes, it's a sports manga, and so the characters take a backseat and end up being pretty one-dimensional.

    To me, Natsu is just the love-interest to show that Maruo has 'grown' throughout the manga. He got better at tennis, so he gets the girl. It's really as simple as that.



    Quote Originally Posted by kayoshi View Post
    And I'm sorry...but since when is an athlete competing for a national title not a 'cool guy' for lack of a better term?
    What does this matter/have I said anything about being cool?
    And Have you also never heard that girls chase the bad boy, but it's the nice guy they take home to meet their parents? You'd actually be surprised how well most 'nice guys' end up in real life relationshipsalthough I do not agree with Maruo being merely a nice guy...
    I will refer you to the link I posted above, Nice Guys with a TM afters its name. Maruo shares some qualities with them. Basically, the end result is, Marou is attracted to Natsu's outgoing personality and looks. This is perfectly reasonable. Natsu has no such attraction to Maruo at first glance, thus they have to rely on other things to get her to 'like' him. Things like 'he tries his best' which sound really stupid, but it's a common go-to reason for getting characters to like someone in a manga when they have no other qualities.

    1. He's competing for a national title in a VERY difficult sport
    2. He's been there for natsu at several points in the story where she got worried. If I really need to I can go find the exact pages.
    3. Unlike Ike, who's basically left and only comes to check in occasionally, Maruo is there constantly. That does help in building a relationship.
    At what point has Maruo been there for Natsu ... and what has he said other than 'do your best' that would perhaps give her a lasting impact? I only really remember them going out for karaoke, but that was so lackluster. I don't care about Ike, it is perfectly reasonable to think Natsu wouldn't like him, because as you said, he isn't there much. But simply because a guy IS there all the time, doesn't mean they'll like them, nor does it mean they should like them. Then you could give the same argument to that glasses girl which stalks Maruo all the time, you don't see Maruo noticing her or liking her back.

    Thirdly you'd be surprised how many manga, the 'nice guy' as you put it doesn't get the girl. It's actually not all that strange, shounen manga (particularly older ones) often end in an epic death. It's concurrent mainstream that's changed that, but it's still not the norm.
    It's mostly shoujo manga which does that, opting to go for the mysterious guy, than the best friend which is likeable. That's for another discussion though. As it stands, currently, shounen manga with romance tagged to its genre, will either give the male main character a harem or love triangle (check any of the most popular manga on MF right now tagged shounen. Good Ending is a good example), or he will end up with his love interest at the end. Surprisingly, Baby Steps does subvert this by making them get together in the middle, and not at the end. This doesn't make it more realistic though.

    Fourthly, as previously stated...this is a sports shonen manga. Not a shoujo romance (as is typical when it comes to romance manga), although there are some good shonen romance manga, they're few and far between. Most tend to use romance as support and not a major component of plot.
    Your point? I know this. This is a topic discussing how realistic it is for Natsu to like Maruo, I'm discussing this, so why do you feel the need to bring it up that this is a sports manga primarily? Yes romance is taking a backseat, but that doesn't excuse its underdeveloped romance.

    Fifthly, how are the characters underdeveloped for a manga? They focus on Ei-Chan of whom we've seen the vast majority of progress through the story. And on Nacchan, who we're starting to see develop as the story goes on.
    Maruo is very ... one dimensional. He took perfect notes at the beginning as if he has OCD. Now, he takes notes for tennis, and has gotten good at tennis. He's figured out he likes tennis, and that's the extend of his character development, literally. He's likable, but doesn't have many sides to him that make up a three dimensional character. Natsu is such a minor character, I have no idea why you even picked her out, because the manga doesn't focus on her. It barely does. Maruo is the only one who gets focus, but he doesn't really get developed that well in terms of personality, unless it's related to tennis.

    In truth, the author focuses more on character development than is typical of most Manga, particularly those that are shonen.
    What, no way. There's plenty of shounen manga out there that develops characters. Death Note comes to mind. Or hell, if you really want to get down and dirty, even Naruto does it. Baby Steps is at the bottom of the list, it's about tennis, which is fine, but don't pretend it's about developing interesting characters and seeing them grow and change as a person.

    If you want to see Character development, read a book, watch a movie, or see a TV show. You'll get it there. Manga constitutes itself upon grabbing the attention as best as possible through still images and a few words. Doesn't particularly leave room for true character development. Most of the time, development is seen in Anime, and not in the manga itself; rather, the manga is basically an outline of the major key points that occur in an anime. Therefore it tends to lack the subtleties that you'd find in a book or in a TV programme.
    I've never heard of anyone propose this argument. Manga isn't about character development? That makes me think you haven't read many good manga. There's loads of manga out there that focus on character development. 7 Seeds is a good one where characters change and grow throughout the manga, also Onani Master Kurosawa is absolutely beautiful in terms of developing characters - even minor ones!

    Manga is a good medium, it can be used to show character development. Baby Steps doesn't have to, it can focus on tennis all it wants, doesn't mean I can't point it out that it has one dimensional characters.
    Last edited by Celianna; 10-26-2012 at 11:05 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    His good quality being what? That he works hard? Everyone can work hard, which is not exactly a selling point, but one that is most often used in shounen romance manga. Or any romance manga, really. Or that he's very analytic? Something which Natsu doesn't seem impressed by, and actually finds it kind of weird (since she plays on instinct).
    Sorry, I'm not actually getting involved in this debate but I just wanted to point out that Natsu was definitely impressed by his analyzing ability. You can see it during their friendly match where she's struck by how he seems to know what she's going to do before she does it. Sorry that I can't give you a link or chapter reference, I went searching through the manga but couldn't find it.

  3. #13
    Has a Few Faves Finris's Avatar
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    Those two guys have been long since friendzoned.

  4. #14
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    I think Natsu chose Eichan because they are different from each other. Some posters already cited the qualities of Eichan so I wont repeat them anymore. Natsu is always surrounded with outgoing, competitive and confident males who use their athleticism in playing tennis (Ike and Takuma). She is already familiar with those type of boys and they(Takuma and Ike) are more like her.

    Maybe she liked Eichan for not being like her. It also means, she doesn't want to date herself. lol

    So is it possible for Natsu to like the guy who draws art in the court or the one who analyzes the opponent using the computer? --> Yes. But Natsu haven't seen them grow like she has seen Eichan. Though, I'm sure Natsu has seen lots of other guys who started tennis and grow as well since she practically lives in the STC.

    Difference(opposite attracts) + Witnessed the growth (impressed) + Visibility (being able to be with her or help her in NON tennis activities)

    Thus she likes Eichan.
    Last edited by enja87; 11-07-2012 at 11:27 AM.

  5. #15
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    Well, don't they have pretty good 'chemistry'? That's normally sufficient for two people to start going out.

    The relationship between them has been pretty low-key but has had consistent development. Seems kinda realistic to me.

  6. #16
    The Original Mangaka Vampirecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enja87 View Post
    Difference(opposite attracts) + Witnessed the growth (impressed) + Visibility (being able to be with her or help her in NON tennis activities)

    Thus she likes Eichan.
    Natsu also listens to her instincts. She responds to emotion. She's seen Ei-chan's passion for excellence and love for tennis. She's seen him enjoy the hard rallies, and knows that he doesn't play tennis with just cold, goal-oriented analysis. It's Ei-chan's hard work, as opposed to Ike's apparently effortless success, that inspires Natsu when she's having a hard time in tennis.
    Mainly for Skip Beat! fans:

  7. #17
    The Legendary Otaku Anyien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    Did I say Maruo is boring? No. However, he and Natsu are very different, while Maruo is the Nice Guy who gravitates towards girls who are outgoing (notice how he doesn't pay attention to the other girl who has a crush on him),
    Of course he donīt notice her, he is in love with Natsu. Itīs normal to not pay attention to girls you are not in love with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    but Natsu in turn would gravitate towards guys with self confidence. Something which Maruo lacks.
    And still, even before she knew Maruo she had no interest in any guys, no matter how much "self confident" they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    His good quality being what? That he works hard?
    Working hard, serious about Tennis, cares about others, help others and he have always been there for Natsu when she needed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    Everyone can work hard,
    And still, that is something you rarely see in a Manga....

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    which is not exactly a selling point,
    That would depend on the person you ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    but one that is most often used in shounen romance manga.
    Believe it or not, but many people also look after that in real life too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    Or any romance manga, really. Or that he's very analytic? Something which Natsu doesn't seem impressed by, and actually finds it kind of weird (since she plays on instinct).
    And thatīs also why she is impressed by it.

    Since she plays by instinct she donīt understand how people can play by just analyze their opponent. And that makes her respect Maruo since she would never be able to play like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    As I said in the above comment before, Natsu liking him has a very low probability of happening (and I mean having a random crush on him).
    And why??

    Because you donīt like him? Donīt push your own ideals on others. Everyone have different "taste" in personality and behavior, just because you donīt like Maruo doesn't mean that others wonīt

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    However, you don't understand what I mean by important moments.
    "Important moments" is not the same for everyone.

    All people have different "versions" of important moments. Yourīs is not a global one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    It's about sharing intimacy. I've had a long term relationship started from online chatting. We exchanged plenty of chats and became very intimate, talking to each other about pretty much everything.
    So, you are actually using your own relationship as a standard on how people can fall in love, and who they will fall in love with...

    Sorry, but real life isn't like your story. In real life you can easily fall in love with someone you would never think about going out with just by being shown kindness by them.

    Love does not follow any "laws" or "patterns", it just happen no matter if you want it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    and no one would really 'get' why they like each other if you just handwave it and pretend they spent more time together without actually showing it. This is badly developed romance.
    Strange, seems to me that most of the people who reads this and have posted knew that they were in love way before Natsu confessed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    Were this realistic, Maruo wouldn't 'get the girl' just because he's a nice guy and works hard.
    Even in a realistic Manga he would still get Natsu because thatīs how love works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    Sometimes they do, but it's not with the type of girl Natsu is.
    So, you actually believe that the internet have the answer to everything, including how love works....

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    He'd instead go with the glasses girl, who is shy, insecure, and readily available.
    Only if he would have fallen in love with her. If not, he would have ended up with Natsu anyway.

    Thatīs how real life works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    Also, I want to address your 'over dramatic manga's you seem to read' point. I read lots of genres, and I've read loads and loads of manga tagged with romance. I hate mostly all of them. The ones I have in my signature are the only ones I like, which I find pretty realistic in terms of romance development (with the exception of Ookami Lover). Look them up sometime, and you'll see what I mean about 'sharing important moments' together.
    And i have read all of them, maybe except for Angel Densetsu or Ookami Lovers.

    And the romance in some of them is even worse of than Baby Step.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    Please do not insult me and assume what you think my idea of romance is when I have mentioned no such thing. Don't make assumptions.
    Like you do just by reading an internet article about "Nice guys"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    Just because I disagree with how realistic this pairing is, doesn't mean I don't like the actual manga. And uhh, like you said below, it's a tennis manga! Not a romance one. I definitely don't read it for the romance.
    And still, itīs the romance you are constantly complaining about.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    Why yes, I've noticed this is a sports manga. I don't care much for the romance part at all, I wish they left it out to be honest, because it's not very well developed, and because the characters themselves aren't well developed either, so I couldn't care less about them and their romantic endeavors.
    And thatīs because this is a Tennis Manga that focus on Tennis.

    If the Manga had focused on the romance like those in your signature i would have agreed with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    I like Baby Steps, I just wish it would also put more importance on developing characters, than always going in-depth about the tennis. The tennis is grounded in reality, their romance, not so much, it's dull because yes, it's a sports manga, and so the characters take a backseat and end up being pretty one-dimensional.
    Of course it will go in-depth about Tennis, thatīs what this Manga is all about...

    And the romance is realistic, this is what romance really is. Not the action or drama fueled things you have read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celianna View Post
    To me, Natsu is just the love-interest to show that Maruo has 'grown' throughout the manga. He got better at tennis, so he gets the girl. It's really as simple as that.
    Wow....

    So you actually donīt see any growth in Maruto at all until Natsu confessed to him... What about all those matches he played and won? Were they only won be 100% luck then?

    Marutoīs growth have been shown through the whole Manga, on training and in every match he have played. Becoming a couple with Natsu have nothing to do with how strong he have become as a Tennis player, but how much he have grown from his usually study personality.
    Last edited by Anyien; 11-11-2012 at 03:18 AM.

  8. #18
    One of The Followers Stannerz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enja87 View Post
    I think Natsu chose Eichan because they are different from each other. Some posters already cited the qualities of Eichan so I wont repeat them anymore. Natsu is always surrounded with outgoing, competitive and confident males who use their athleticism in playing tennis (Ike and Takuma). She is already familiar with those type of boys and they(Takuma and Ike) are more like her.

    Maybe she liked Eichan for not being like her. It also means, she doesn't want to date herself. lol

    So is it possible for Natsu to like the guy who draws art in the court or the one who analyzes the opponent using the computer? --> Yes. But Natsu haven't seen them grow like she has seen Eichan. Though, I'm sure Natsu has seen lots of other guys who started tennis and grow as well since she practically lives in the STC.

    Difference(opposite attracts) + Witnessed the growth (impressed) + Visibility (being able to be with her or help her in NON tennis activities)

    Thus she likes Eichan.
    u make a really good point there. when i made this thread, wasn't expecting to evoke so much debate lol.

  9. #19
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    Well... In one of the later chapters... I think chapter 191.5 (the end of vol 20)... Natsu 2 girlfriends actually asked her what she liked about e-chan... N natsu's reply: she says she just doesn't know how to explain it... But, she just knows that she likes him... So, one of the girls comment that maybe, the serious e-chan is a good match/balance for a girl like Natsu...

    Well, I guess it just means that natsu's really just following her instincts with regards to her love life... N, the fact that she's very comfortable with him... Well, I wouldn't say that this explanation is unrealistic... In real life, lots of ppl fall in love for no a apparent reason at all... Some can't even explain why they like the person that they do... So, I think that Natsu n e-chan's case is fairly normal... Well, some might say that there is a really low probability of a gorgeous girl ending up with a normal nice guy in reality... While I do agree with that, it is something which is not completely impossible... As the saying goes... Love is blind... Lol ^^

  10. #20
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    She's instinctive; both in life and in tennis
    If you want to be happy, BE.
    ~ Leo Tolstoy


    Have a happy time, if not for you, then for me. Because how can I possibly be happy when you are not?

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