Something that bugs me

[OrangeGloFetus]

I understand that Teldlars evolved from the spiritual forms of early human life, etc. What bothers me, is the children of the soul-less vortexes, do they not have souls? Yes, one body, minus the soul uses its computer-like brain to continue living, but do the progeny thereof lack the spiritual existence purely because of their ancestors? That doesn't really follow any logic, as far as I can tell.

[Tye]

I think they do cause the original teldlar made artificial souls for them, but I think there soul kinda evolved to be real souls, like an android becoming human over time

[OrangeGloFetus]

That's not what I mean. I'm talking about natural 'tedlar' souls. Just like cutting off your arm, you wont produce children missing an arm. Wouldn't the natural result of even a pair of 'soul-less' creatures be one with a soul, if that is inherent in the programming of the creature? That is; if I were to give my soul up, wouldn't I still have a child who bore one itself, without artificial means?

[Elfurious]

I think it's more of the exact opposite of the second poster... The "soul" they have is an artificial soul to preserve the bodies for tedlar (I assume plural and singlular for tedlar would be the same because "tedlars" just sounds weird :/). These now make the humans nothing more than semi-automated psuedo-tedlar. Because they are no longer full tedlar, one cannot produce offspring with a soul more powerful no more than a human can give birth to, for example, a giraffe (It's a stretch I know but think of a species producing offspring belonging to a separate species) The reason this is completely opposite, is because he said the human "souls" became complete, however if they were, then all humans would be tedlar. Because they are not, they are still in the "android stage" of his/her analogy demonstrated by the ease tedlar can reacquire a human body. They are close to the tedlar, but nothing more. They are like the "yin" to the tedlar "yang" because a human cannot exist in the spirit world so he is not complete in the same way tedlar cannot survive in the human world. That's just my attempt to explaina difficult concept. Hope it helps a little

[The_Mad_Rooster]

That's not what I mean. I'm talking about natural 'tedlar' souls. Just like cutting off your arm, you wont produce children missing an arm. Wouldn't the natural result of even a pair of 'soul-less' creatures be one with a soul, if that is inherent in the programming of the creature? That is; if I were to give my soul up, wouldn't I still have a child who bore one itself, without artificial means?

As I read the part about tedlar vortexes, the exact same thought came to mind. "Even though tedlars are the soles of vortexes, that shouldn't mean a child bred between two vortexes has no sole. The manga does not question nor tries to even bring up the subject matter. The author didn't want to touch upon it purposely. As for you and I, Orange, we can safely conclude that soles still exist in the child regardless of ancestry. It would be illogical otherwise. Even though this is a manga, and its just a story, the very thought that "If I lose an eye or an arm, my children will not develop abnormalities" is true. A sole is created or transferred. If we must go into real depth, then the only thing that transfers from the parent to the child is genetics and potential "memories" or "experiences." The sole of the parent doesn't transfer to the child.

Remember in the manga, it said that they had to send electrical signals to the vortexes that lost their tedlars? Meaning they took those bodies, put them into sleep, and altered the brains to "live" on by using electrical signals, then set the bodies free. If the children of those bodies were without soles from birth, then every person would have to go through that WHOLE process of being put to sleep and having electrical signals sent to their brains like a computer. That's just too much hard work and resources. And better yet, who'd be alive to keep that process going when humans are unaware of tedlars and tedlars having no time to alter every human since they are struggling to survive?

Thus, the offspring of the vortexes have their own soles.

[kl2789]

the offspring have souls (spelled s-o-u-l, just an fyi), this much is certain. however, it would be ridiculous to say that these are in any way comparable to the tedlar souls as we know them.

as stated, the tedlars had to leave their vortexes behind in order to venture into the realm of the dead. however, they didn't want to leave their vortexes in a state of disuse and let them decay because of their prolonged absence. looking at basic scientific understanding, there is only one discernible difference between a living body and dead body, and that is consciousness; a body that can maintain its functions and retains consciousness will continue to live, while a body that can longer maintain its functions or loses consciousness dies of disuse.

according to many religious beliefs, this consciousness, the mind's ability to interact with the world around it, constitutes part of what is commonly called the soul. in leaving their vortexes, the tedlars (souls) thus deprive the body of a necessary component to continue its existence. if they were to just leave for the realm of the dead for a short period of time, then this would surely be no problem, but many of them would leave for prolonged periods of time (from what i understand). in order to retain the consciousness needed to help maintain their bodies and prevent an early demise while they were in the realm of the dead, the tedlars had to create artificial souls that could replace them in their absence (how they created them is beyond me or the author; this is the reason why he only states that they implanted thought patterns and electric signals, but does not elaborate on how they produced such things).

as it stands, the vortexes now have "souls" that were provided by the tedlars. these souls are artificial, but as the vortexes produce offspring, the souls become a part of the natural process of death and birth. as such, these natural souls, which we can now call human souls, experience a separate path of evolution than the tedlars themselves experienced because of the fact that they are not tedlars, much in the same way that a Pikachu can evolve into a Raichu but not a Charizard (because those are two distinct paths of evolution).

however, because of the nature of human souls in relations to tedlars, there are most likely cases where the evolution of the human soul can cross paths with that of the tedlars. this can help explain why a human that can see tedlars and hear their voices can exist (the psychic girl [whose name i forget]).

this is all just a bunch of scientific speculation, though. ultimately, what matters is that humans are the former vortexes of the tedlars that have evolved into their own distinct being.

PS: just as an afterthought, it's important to note that you cannot equate the human soul to something that can be passed down genetically; because of their incorporeal nature, there really is no way to determine how a person begets a soul from the union of the parents. all we know is that sex happens, and babies are made.

[Tye]

the offspring have souls (spelled s-o-u-l, just an fyi), this much is certain. however, it would be ridiculous to say that these are in any way comparable to the tedlar souls as we know them.

as stated, the tedlars had to leave their vortexes behind in order to venture into the realm of the dead. however, they didn't want to leave their vortexes in a state of disuse and let them decay because of their prolonged absence. looking at basic scientific understanding, there is only one discernible difference between a living body and dead body, and that is consciousness; a body that can maintain its functions and retains consciousness will continue to live, while a body that can longer maintain its functions or loses consciousness dies of disuse.

according to many religious beliefs, this consciousness, the mind's ability to interact with the world around it, constitutes part of what is commonly called the soul. in leaving their vortexes, the tedlars (souls) thus deprive the body of a necessary component to continue its existence. if they were to just leave for the realm of the dead for a short period of time, then this would surely be no problem, but many of them would leave for prolonged periods of time (from what i understand). in order to retain the consciousness needed to help maintain their bodies and prevent an early demise while they were in the realm of the dead, the tedlars had to create artificial souls that could replace them in their absence (how they created them is beyond me or the author; this is the reason why he only states that they implanted thought patterns and electric signals, but does not elaborate on how they produced such things).

as it stands, the vortexes now have "souls" that were provided by the tedlars. these souls are artificial, but as the vortexes produce offspring, the souls become a part of the natural process of death and birth. as such, these natural souls, which we can now call human souls, experience a separate path of evolution than the tedlars themselves experienced because of the fact that they are not tedlars, much in the same way that a Pikachu can evolve into a Raichu but not a Charizard (because those are two distinct paths of evolution).

however, because of the nature of human souls in relations to tedlars, there are most likely cases where the evolution of the human soul can cross paths with that of the tedlars. this can help explain why a human that can see tedlars and hear their voices can exist (the psychic girl [whose name i forget]).

this is all just a bunch of scientific speculation, though. ultimately, what matters is that humans are the former vortexes of the tedlars that have evolved into their own distinct being.

PS: just as an afterthought, it's important to note that you cannot equate the human soul to something that can be passed down genetically; because of their incorporeal nature, there really is no way to determine how a person begets a soul from the union of the parents. all we know is that sex happens, and babies are made.

In short its exactly what I just said up top in more details, the tedlars simple made souls of sorts to carry out their daily lives but because they could come back the temp souls became permanent cause the originals could no longer "fit" in their own bodies,

So when it comes down to the whole thing about not having a certain body part (like OrangeGloFetus was saying) so intern your descendants might not have it, that doesn't happen here because they in fact did have a "soul" in the body, just not the originals