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Thread: {SPOILERS} Explaining Heart no Kuni no Alice

  1. #1
    =^.^= Hanayuki-hime's Avatar
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    Default {SPOILERS} Explaining Heart no Kuni no Alice

    I know a lot of you don't know about the video game this is based on, but to understand the plot of the series you must understand the game.

    Since the manga is over, I won't put spoilers tags so be warned!

    Explaining Heart no Kuni no Alice

    A little general knowledge
    First of all, Heart no Kuni no Alice is an otome game made by QuinRose. For those who don't know what otome game means, it's a girl dating game. The manga is an adaptation of this video game.

    There are two sequels to Heart. Clover and Joker (There's also a remake of the first one; Anniversary)

    Sadly, those games are not available in English. There's no American version nor English patch available on internet. If you want to play, you have to understand Japanese or play with some translating tools (like I did).

    Second, Hoshino Soumei screwed a lot of things in her interpretation in this manga. The character doesn't even have their rightful personalities, and the ending has nothing to do with any of the game routes... The manga dropped a lot of important things and only put some hints here and there, creating a lot more confusion than needed.

    People who played the video game will tell you, the manga is far from doing justice to the original story. That's why my explanations will be based mostly on the video game.

    The different mangas

    Who the hell is Joker?
    There are some people who are confused about the bonus chapter that is in volume 4. That's a bonus and it was made to promote the 3rd game. This chapter has no relation with the rest of the manga we read here except that's it's from the same series of video games. That's why we see Pierce, Gray and Joker in those pages but they are not mentioned ever again here. This bonus can also be a teaser for an upcoming manga, but I'll elaborate on it later.

    A sequel for Heart manga?
    Some of you heard about the few volumes called Clover no Kuni no Alice but those volume are not sequels for the manga. I know that's confusing since the sequel of the video game is called Clover but you have to distinguish the games, the mangas and the relations between them.

    Those volumes are "one shot" based on the game Clover and are not sequels of the manga. They each contain story of different Alice pairings. They are made by various artist and, if I'm right, QuinRose decide of the next pairing based on popularity polls.

    There is a new Alice manga that is planned but that's not a direct sequel either. It'll be based on Joker no Kuni. So you can think of the bonus chapter in volume 4 as a teaser for this. I read somewhere that the mangaka won't be Hoshino Soumei, so expect some changes in the drawing style and another kind of storytelling

    Someone asked in another thread if another manga called : "Heart no Kuni no Alice - My Fanatic Rabbit" is a sequel for the manga here. No. This volume is just like the Clover no Kuni ones; it's a one-shot.
    Just so you know, as of now, there is NO SEQUEL to the manga we read here.
    [End of EDIT]

    Now, onto the story!
    This part of my post will mostly be based on what happened in the video game Heart no Kuni, because in contrary with the manga, the game actually gives explanations.

    What happened before the game

    Alice and her family (mostly her sister)
    Alice loved her sister Lorinna and she spent Sunday afternoons with her. When their mom died, their father became a workaholic to forget his suffering. Their little sister (Edith?) blamed Alice for not crying at the funerals. So Alice was only comforted by her big sis. However, Lorinna was ill.

    When Alice finishes her college studies, she wants to move from the familial house. She had an arguments with Lorinna because of that. When Lorinna died of her illness, Alice blamed herself because of their argument that caused Lorrina condition to get worst. After her sister death, Alice suffered a lot but kept on cherishing the Sunday afternoons she spent with her.

    Alice love life
    Alice was in love with her "teacher" (or tutor) that is the man who share the same face as Blood. This man was in love with Lorinna but dated Alice anyway.

    When Lorinna died, this man could not bear the pain so he left Alice and focused on is work. This reminded her so much of her father when her mom died that she couldn't restrain him from leaving. For her this form of love is pure love.

    Little precision about Lorinna's death.
    Some of you thought Lorinna was killed by Joker. That wrong! The people who guessed that saw some CGs from Joker no Kuni (or the opening for this video game) in which we see Joker pointing a gun at Lorinna and shooting, but that's only a set up made by him to play with Alice's mind (I don't know the exact reason since I didn't play this game). That's an illusion.

    In short: Alice graduated from college, she is in her mid twenties, her sister is dead and the man she loved left her.

    Then why is Alice younger than what she really is in the game/manga?
    Because at the very beginning of the video game/manga she is dreaming of her younger self who is spending time with her beloved sister.

    What is "Wonderland" and why Alice got there
    Wonderland is not a dream world like Alice think it is. That's a parallel world to the real one. Its existence, its rules and its mechanisms exist outside of Alice's imagination.

    Why is she persuaded that's a dream?
    First, to enter "Wonderland" she has to be asleep (and therefore dreaming). Nightmare could only make a connection between the two world for her when she is dreaming.

    She thinks "Wonderland" is all a dream because Nightmare told her that, so she could be more comfortable. The others (example : Julius) just went along with it.

    Why is she there?
    As to the reason Peter brought her in "Wonderland", it was because he was concerned about her happiness.
    She was suffering because of the death of her sister so he wanted her to forget the reality and be just happy. This also explain why she must not remember to stay in the Heart country. If she comes to remember what happened in the real world, her sense of responsibility would force her to leave, just like she did at the end of the manga, but with no way to come back.

    Is there a different "Wonderland" for everyone?
    No. Like I said, this world exists on it's own, it's not a part of Alice's imagination and it was not created solely for the purpose of her exiting reality. Foreigner are rare, but it never said that there can't be more than one at the same time. If someone else entered the Heart country, every role holder would be the same, only the perception the foreigner have of them would be different. In short, there is only one country of Heart that stay the same whoever gets in.

    About the role holders and "Wonderland" inhabitants
    The role holders are all a "face" on the clock. The each represent an hour. It's not said exactly who is what but we know for sure they represent hours.

    The faceless too represent time, but minor amount like minutes or seconds. That's why they have no face, because they are less significant than the role holders.

    Everyone is disposable because time is a cycle. The clocks for hearts that can be repaired is a representation of passing time. The same "hour" can happen twice and be different, just like the people living in "Wonderland" can have their clock repaired and their role replaced.

    In Peter's case, in the video game true ending, it is said he represents an hour in the time Alice spent with her sister. People often makes the mistake to generalize and refer to him only as "Sunday afternoon" (heck, even I did it XD) but we do so only because QuinRose never said exactly what hour he is. Moreover, Alice never said exactly which hour she spent with her sister.

    To clear things up even more: let's say he represent 3 o'clock, that means he represent every 3 o'clock, AM or PM, in every day of the week. This is not only bound to Alice's 3 o'clock but every 3 o'clock of everyone in the world.

    His obsession with Alice can be explained because she is always thinking about this precise portion of time. So when Peter said to Alice that she likes him he wasn't totally wrong. She love the time he represents. Alice reminiscing her time with her sister is also what links her with Peter and what brought him to love her and care for her happiness.

    If Alice didn't imagine all this, why does blood have the exact same face as her ex?
    It's Nightmare who decided of this. He wanted to give her an incentive to stay and he thought to give it to Blood because his personality is very different from her ex. He did that to expand the chances of her staying and for his own amusement at the same time.

    Nightmare only has the power to twist how Alice sees the role holders faces. He didn't change Blood's face, but only how Alice sees it. Moreover, he can't change the personality nor the behaviour of the other people. Keep in mind that all role holders are nothing more than players. If he had this kind of powers, he would be some kind of game master, but we don't even know if there is one.

    I dug through the older threads and found a little gold mine of information.
    Understand the Alice series - Character info, game/manga differences ~ By kahoyukimura

    (See next post for the rest)
    Last edited by Hanayuki-hime; 05-01-2011 at 02:43 AM. Reason: Cleaned a little (character limit...) and added a VERY USEFULL link!!

  2. #2
    =^.^= Hanayuki-hime's Avatar
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    Why everyone love her
    The fact that everyone in "Wonderland" love Alice doesn't mean everyone will love her romantically or they will fall for her as soon as they sees her. It will take more or less time depending on the character because they have to interact with her first.

    Why they will love her? That can be explained because of the essence of the characters : they all represent time. Alice is a person who value time a lot and cherish it. Like in Peter case, for them it's like she already like them.

    Alice is also a very caring person, even if the faceless are disposable for the other inhabitants, she care for them and don't want them to die. She is able to tell them apart because of the importance of time in her life. She value even the minutes and seconds.

    It can be also like in Ace's case. Ace is interested in Alice because she is different. She is not bound by the game rules nor have a role to fulfill. That is somewhat why he is attracted to her, and also because she can make people change by befriending them. Having a heart "a sound that doesn't exist in this world" is something precious when all the inhabitants have clocks.

    The manga ending itself
    THIS is the big confusing part.
    When Soumei did the ending for this manga, she ignored some of the core principles of how Nightmare's dream world works and how the connection between the the different worlds is made.

    Nightmare's dream world and it's importance in travels

    The dream world
    To enter this world you need to be asleep AND have Nightmare permission. In the manga, Blood entered the dream world without permission as we can see because Nightmare is afraid of him. (that part also doesn't make sense when we consider the game, but I'll cover this later)
    In fact, he shouldn't have been able to do it because he didn't have permission. Nightmare is the master of the dream world, he decides who gets in when he want them to be there. The one and only exception to this is Joker.

    That's very important to know that Blood couldn't threaten Nightmare to let him in either. When the video game went to Clover country, we learned that Nightmare didn't live in Heart land but in this other country (those two are part of "Wonderland" just so you're not more confused XD). There is no connections that can be made between the two at this time, so Blood couldn't force Nightmare to let him in the dream world. However, Nightmare can communicate outside the dreams by telepathy, like he did with Alice at the beginning when he told her that it's a dream.

    But even if the games setting made it impossible for Blood to enter the dream world on his own he still did it in the manga.

    But let say that the second time he went, just before getting Alice back, he did have Nightmare's approval.
    If Nightmare let him in the dream world, it is plausible because something like this happen in one of the game ending. However, in the game ending, Blood reached Alice before she left the dream world, which leads us to :

    The connection between the worlds
    Some things that is left out and may have confused people is how to travel between the worlds.

    I'll do a scheme first then explain it :
    Asleep (in real world) <---> Nightmare's dream world <---> Asleep (in "Wonderland")

    To go from the real world to "Wonderland" the person must pass by the dream world and vice-versa. It is impossible to go from one to the other without the dream world. It's what makes the connection.

    So... In Alice's case, let's start by the way Peter reached her. He went to sleep, Nightmare allowed him in the dream world and, when she was asleep, Peter went into Alice's dream. He "caught" her and brought her against her will. When they fell, they went through the dream world before reaching "Wonderland".

    In the manga, there's no allusion that they went into the dream world before getting on the clock tower. However, in the video game, the falling scene CGs show a pitch black background gradually changing to the dream world background as they fall.

    The way Peter, with Nightmare's help, brought Alice in wonderland is considered as smuggling as it's against the rules because she didn't want to go. That's where the potion comes in play.

    Blood getting Alice back in "Wonderland"
    Now that we know how the connections between the different worlds works, we can assume Blood took the same route as Peter in the beginning. So we also can assume that Alice is still sleeping in the real world because, unless she is asleep and dreaming, he couldn't appear before her after she left the dream world.

    When she came back to "Wonderland" she still doesn't remember that her sister is dead.

    In the manga, we can't be sure if she decided to leave the real world to stay in "Wonderland". Blood making her drink the potion again is like resetting the whole thing to the beginning. But, we can clearly see that Alice is more eager to stay there than the first time.
    [End of EDIT]

    (The explanation continue in my next post, the character limit start to really annoy me XD)
    Last edited by Hanayuki-hime; 04-25-2011 at 10:49 PM. Reason: Cut the post in two, corrected and added things

  3. #3
    A Page Flipper BiscuitXD1219's Avatar
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    Thanks for the explanation

  4. #4
    Loveless Romance Lover look2thestars4ever's Avatar
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    Omigoodness Thank you so much for posting this! I was checking posts to see if the manga really ended because I didn't get the ending at all. I did see Alice's sister and I was like, why does it look like she's in a coffin? And now I know what Vivaldi was about to say to Alice about her sister... This manga is really confusing but when you understand it, you'll see that it has a really interesting plot. Confusing...but interesting

    Thank you again you saved me a lot of time and thinking

  5. #5
    Rumbling, tumbling and somewhat disturbing. Inclusit's Avatar
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    I'd like to get a further explanation about all of the characters...
    "Your fantasy, is my reality."

    Inclūsit. Third-person singular perfect active indicative of inclūdō present active inclūdō, present infinitive inclūdere, perfect active inclūsī, supine inclūsum. 1. I shut up or in, confine, enclose, imprison, keep in. 2. I obstruct, hinder; bound, limit, restrain, control. 3.I close, finish, end.

  6. #6
    =^.^= Hanayuki-hime's Avatar
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    The potion
    Another really complicated theme in the manga as much as in the video game. There's not many discussions about this subject among people who played the game, but there's a crucial fact given in some endings :

    It's not what really keep Alice from going back.

    Wait, what?!? The potion doesn't restrain Alice from leaving "Wonderland"?
    That's right.

    To explain it further, here's a very good explanation gothicat provided me about the potion :
    Quote Originally Posted by gothicat
    As for the potion, what it is, well it's a bit confusing, and it's not really discussed about so I am going off solely off my own translation.

    In the mafia family ending in heart, Elliot and the twins try to destroy the bottle to force her to stay and they can't do it, shooting it, stomping it, hitting it with axes does nothing. Blood then sits down and says that the bottle and liquid in it is Alice's feelings, and Alice remarks that her feelings taste bitter. He also says that she could go back to her world whenever she wanted, the whole forcing her to be there was just a farce.[...]
    Sadly, Soumei never explained this. We believe that she didn't even know the real meaning of the potion and thought it really was what Peter said it was. I bet she didn't played all the routes in the video game or wasn't provided with all the scripts before doing this manga.

    Quote Originally Posted by gothicat
    Now this does make sense if one thinks about it. Peter feeds her a bottle with a representation of her own feelings, and lies to her to keep her there, and this works because she doesn't really want to leave.

    This means that the liquid that fills up overtime is not the feelings other people have for her like the beginning of the manga would let you to believe, it's the feelings she experiences in wonderland.

    Since romance was a big part of the games, you can bet the bottle filled up faster when she is developing a relationship with one of them. Although I imagine friendship also filled it up (since you can end the game without falling in love with anyone), and all the other range of emotions.

    Now here comes the part where I'm speculating, mainly trying to answer the question of why she absolutely has to leave when the bottle fills up.

    Let's start off with a number of facts:
    -Alice mentions her own feelings tasted bitter and weird.
    Given the story, I imagine that's mostly due to grief, but also given the current predicament she was in. She couldn't really deal with her sister's death, so that's why she hid in the dreams, where she was happy. But she also felt like she should grow up, which meant forgetting her dreams and facing the truth, which made her hurt. And she had set herself a deadline for her decision, when she graduated college. So her feelings at the time where both overwhelming, confusing and clashing, which must have resulted in them tasting weird and bitter, due to her being confused.

    -The exact same situation plays up in heart.
    She can fall in love again and it will make her happy, but she also feels like she should go back, which makes her sad
    When Boris is trying to convince her to stay with him in his ending, she mentions she's only going back because of responsibility not because she is happy in there. He replies "why would you want to go back to something that makes you miserable?"

    -Her sense of responsibility is big part in the game.
    You can "level up" her sense of responsibility in the scenes with Nightmare and at the ball. If her sense of responsibility is too high, she always go back, no matter how raburabu she is with a guy. Again, she is developing the same overwhelming, confusing and clashing feelings, and that's what's filling up the bottle.
    So Peter made Alice drinks her own feelings so she could have a fresh start in "Wonderland". this is also the only thing keeping her there at the beginning since she doesn't want to be there. Because she believes she can't go home until the bottle is full, she is not even trying to find a way out.

    Gothicat went deeper than that by saying this about Alice's fresh start in "Wonderland" :
    Quote Originally Posted by gothicat
    I'm guessing Peter feeding her feelings is to give her a fresh start in wonderland. Why do I think this is important? Because wonderland cannot seem to be able to keep her when she has so many clashing emotions, which is why she has to make a decision when the bottle fills up. When she makes the decision to stay, the bottle becomes empty and it never fills up in the other games, no matter what she is feeling. Also, when she becomes truly happy in Boris ending (and Gowland's I think), the bottle breaks all on its own, never to be seen again. In Blood's ending he can actually break it and lies and says she can't go back now, but like I said before, the twins and Elliot couldn't do it no matter what. I'm guessing either she made a decision when she saw him try to break it, or the bottle becomes fragile when it's completely full and she still hasn't made a decision. I'm leading to option one, since she could always leave if she really wanted to.
    I hope this is enough to explain the potion. However, I think It's too long and I'll probably summarize it later.

    "Wonderland"'s game
    Now, what I'm talking about is the "game" happening between all the role holders. The "game" is not much discussed since there so few information given about it.
    Maybe those questions were already answered somewhere, but I'll go on about what I actually know.

    There is something/someone somewhere that chose who are the roles holders, what are the roles and the rules, but I don't know who/what it can be. One thing for sure, it's not one of the role holders.

    We know there are rules and that the roles holder were chosen to play a part in this "game", but I don't know much more about the mechanisms of it.

    What is important to know about the "game"
    In the case of understanding the manga, there a few information about the game useful to know.

    Why everyone have to fight each other
    The hatter mansion, the heart castle and the amusement park are in a war; the only neutral area is the clock tower. This war is a setting in the "game" rules. They are trying to kill each other because that's part of the "game".

    The roles
    When someone is chosen to fulfill a role, he is given a face and now must act accordingly to his role. That's the reason why Blood and Vivaldi meet in secret; it's their role to try to kill each other even if they are siblings.

    Some rules we know
    - Act accordingly to their roles.
    - Take a part in the territory war. (By being hostile or not, depending of each role.)
    - Make some events. (Vivaldi had to host a ball because it's the rule.)
    - Attend events. (Like all players were required to attend the ball.)
    - Breaking a clock is a mortal sin.
    There's may be more, but that's the ones I can think of now.

    If your interrogation haven't been answered, you can look at those posts where I tried my best to answer some of the questions I got.
    There's some here.
    Another one here.
    A tiny one there.
    CSChik answered questions too. Thanks a lot ^^
    Freakingly huge post with a bunch of questions answered!
    My last batch of "answers" for a while.
    [End of EDIT]

    I hope I've been able to clear some of the confusion on the forum.

    If you have any question that I didn't answer in this post, just ask and I'll respond the best I can.
    If you want to correct things I wrote, please do so! I'll gladly edit my post
    [This applies as much for the information provided than the grammar, vocabulary etc.]

    I want this post to be the as instructive as possible, so any contribution is appreciated! I'd like the people who actually played the games to give me any complementary information to try and have a clear thread that regroup everything that is needed to better understand. That's my goal for this post.

    Thanks for reading!
    Last edited by Hanayuki-hime; 03-03-2012 at 03:22 AM. Reason: Added links to answers posts

  7. #7
    its*robyn. Sindao's Avatar
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    Under your bed o.o


    Ahh, thank you! It makes much more sense now. But why was the reason why everyone was 'suppose' to 'love' her? Just because they were hours ...? O.o

  8. #8
    Cyber Papercuts ♥ Snozemonster's Avatar
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    thanks for the clearup ! ~ ^^

  9. #9
    Drifting skyward Butterflywish's Avatar
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    NOW I get it!
    Was completely confused...
    Do they have the game in English/for the computer or... Like, can an American play it?!!!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default i get it..but and the end when she returns with blood, she knows the truth?? alice left the real world to live in wonderland??

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