Kaname/Yuuki/Zero Pairings Discussion Thread [Read the first post!]

[_Hyacinth_]

LOL whoww.. this thread is a pure battlefield.. but love the zekis!!!



- For some reason I really like this post so much.. thanks for clarifying other things xnhassan.. very nice I agree with you! 100%.. zero is still a good person.. so glad the shooting is as illusion and the bite on sara is literally needed.. It give me hope again for him and yuuki.. no matter what role they were handling.. trust is always visible.. well strong attachment maybe tested again in this time in the next chapter if yuuki catch up with them.. the fact is how will zero handle sara's blood within him.. he might gain power.. but it may cause trouble especially when sara has the way to control vampires by means of blood..

I'm not that deep type but anyway.. here are other reasons why I like zeki.. just simple things..
-they've been best of friends
-they watch each others back..been partners
-zero was the first vampire that bite yuuki
-yuuki gave zero a valentine chocolate she actually made herself
-zero risk his life for her and so as she
-yuuki cares for him and so as he
-the sacrificed
-when zero was in emotional breakdown she was there to help him up
-when yuuki is scared on how will her memories might be.. he was there to comfort her
-they kissed..
-yuuki desires his blood unconscious and consciously..
-she was satisfied on his blood and zero desires her too..
-when they touch each other after a year in the party.. yuuki touches her hand and zero looks at his arm..*kyyaa*
-they both hurt emotionally.. separation..
-they trust each other.. yuuki sure does on zero..
-they can read what's going on there minds even though they don't say it
-they know each other very well..
-zero loves her obviously!!! but denies it!
-yuuki admits he has a place(part) in her heart!! thus she can't be quenched on kaname's blood

I'm not a Genie but man.. of all of this.. there is a hell way I should think that the author is saying there's a zeki chance.. Im not dreaming coz its not finish..I bet its near the climax.. so let's just enjoy it.. we are still rooting for the pairing we like.. and I'm still rooting for zeki..

My reasons as well, jcena~
Zero and Yuuki has risked alot for each other. I think the biggest act for Yuuki was the fact she actually offered to turn herself into a level E/vampire for Zero (During the Shizuka arc). And Zero has done a butt load of things for Yuuki- but i actually loved it when Zero decided to drink Kaname blood for Yuuki's sake despite hating kaname XD Fanfiction says other wise *ahem*
Glad you mentioned the chocolate part too. ^///^ I literally squealed when Yuuki pushed the chocolates in his mouth. With Zero and Yuuki, it is definitely the small things. And it occurs at times when we least expect it alot. When Yuuki touched Zero's arm at the ball, i was not expecting that, and even in the latest chapter~ Zero thinking back & reflecting.
It's really touching!
<''3 One day, Zero aka Tsundere of the Year, will finally stop denying his feelings.
And we shall rejoice!...Hopefully, Hino won't troll us in the next chapter XD
@Howl
I agree.
"I won't allow you to do whatever you want! Even if i have to cut you down!!."- Yuuki
^Point taken, Yuuki... 0_0

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Hm, it makes sense for Zero to protect Sara: "The enemy(Sara) of my enemy(Kaname) is my friend."
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Anyway, like the Mod said, we'll bring it down a few notches. No one wins if this thread is closed.

[SassyKnight]

I believe that Yuki and Zero have always been the main focus in the first arc, Zero and Yuki as the Guardians of the school (Major role) Zero's fall to Level (Forbidden Act) His tragedy, Shizuka and Ichiru coming to the Academy, all evolving around Zero. ZeKi was always the main focus, and as much as Kaname was there for Yuki, he was always protecting her behind the scenes. Plus, both of them own the original hunter weapons, which is sort of like the chains of fate

This is going to be a long post because I want to define everything ZeKi has been through until now....

Rewind back to Chapter 2....

Yuki's first sight of Zero was, of course, that night his parents were killed. But we never really known why he went directly to Headmaster Cross in the first place, I mean the Hunter Association could have took him in at the time. I think Kaname had wanted Yuki and Zero to bond and connect with eacother so Zero would have a reason to protect her, but I think he intended on them just becoming friends; I don't think he would have thought they would feel something more for eachother. Yuki always had wanted to stay by Zero's side regardless of everything. She wanted to cherish Zero. To stay with him no matter what...Their relationship to some is just thought of a pure sympathy, but in my opinion I believe that Yuki really does love Zero.

Now, them becoming Guardians... Zero did want to kill all vampires...But I think that now some part of him really does feel for them a little. Protecting the Day Class from the Night Class's dark secret...That was what we all must have thought the story was going to be about in the beginning. The whole story changed so drastically which is what makes Vampire Knight such an awesome manga to read

Anyway, firstly, Yuki never knew Zero's secret for four years because he never told her. Zero kept it all inside because he was afraid she would become afraid of him. Zero also wanted to protect her; All that time he held all of his bloody past inside was just making him feel more pain. Yuki eventually discovered it by him drinking her blood, which was because of his hunger, not because he wanted to. He hates what he's become, and that really makes me sad. Yuki says that she wants to protect him, help him, and to stop Zero's lust for blood getting worse; She gave him her own blood...A forbidden act that Yuki would never regret doing because she wanted to save his life.

Now, the whole "Shizuka incident" is so damn huge that we still don't know much. From what Kaname stated, he was the one who released her; But I think that he must have done something more, something direct, or behind Rido's actions. How could Shizuka's Lover have been killed if she was with him when they ran away together? Kaname must have done something else..Maybe Zero knows something more now? It's confuses me when I think about it too much... :P

Shizuka came to the Academy for Kaname's blood, more power so she could destroy the one who caused her Lover to be killed. Or maybe she just had something against Kaname and wanted him dead? Well she came to the Academy in Maria Kuranai's body, which Zero had noticed who she was because of their "Blood Bond". Even when Zero was fighting Maria and willing to die along with Shizuka, Yuki was still there for him the whole time. She wanted to sacrifice her own life, instead of killing Kaname or having Zero die; Because she Loved them both equally. Even now Yuki was willing to go after Kaname for what he had done, which is a big step for Yuki since she has been holding back her anger for so long. Kaname killed Shizuka, drinking her blood and being told that there will be nothing but darkness in his path...

Then one day`Zero has an unsettling dream, one he killed Yuki in. Awakening from his dream, he almost kisses her...I was like, DAMN IT ZERO!! WHY?? XD I actually think that he didn't because he thought that he's a vampire, and she's a human, plus she already desire's someone else in her heart, so he didn't kiss her :( He only wants her to be happy, so he would do anything to keep her happy...I get sad just thinking about it...He's willing to give up his life for her...Poor Zero...IMO I think that he really need Yuki...I know Kaname does too but, he's already experienced those feelings...

Yuki then starts to really wonder what happened in her past, wanting answers. Now again, Yuki and Zero are a team on this, solving the puzzle. Kaname wasn't with her through that or the important parts in her life; ZeKi have always been the ones finding the pieces. Going to the Association, she can't find anything about her past because it's all burnt by, who or what, we still don't know, but it's possible that Kaname was trying to keep her from remembering her past. Then Yuki starts to question Kaname about her past, but he refuses to answer. Why couldn't he just tell her? Even if it was for her own good and her protection, why not tell her the truth? And even though Yuki said that she still loved Kaname in front of Zero, Zero still supported her. Zero was encouraging Yuki to get closer to Kaname because he cared only for her happiness. He would do absolutely anything for Yuki because he loves her that much. Now Kaname said that he would only tell her her past if she would become his Lover, which IMO is a little forceful..I mean as I said before, why not tell her???

Yuki being turned into a vampire was a very forceful and harsh bite IMO. Well then again, all the bites in VK are harsh :P I think that it would have been better if she drunk the the blood of Kuran as a human...She would have been human and regained her memories right? When Yuki regained her memories as a Pureblood Vampire, she seemed confused and uncomfortable because she had been a human for so long...And when Kaname was biting her, she even said that it was her punishment for hurting Zero (Becoming a vampire) And IMO I believe that Yuki thinks that she has to choose either her vampire side or her human side, and she is getting confused about herself and who she really is. So...WHO IS THE TRUE YUKI?

Now Rido, he wanted Yuki's blood for more power (Why is it always the goal of villains? To be in control and to have power) :P Anyway, Kaname the whole time used Zero so he could fully exterminate Rido and to be freed from Rido's spell...Which was very selfish to do so. Even if it for Yuki's sake, he shouldn't have be meddling with the lives of others. Why use Shizuka? Kaname could have easily turned Zero himself if he wanted to, unless he specifically wanted Shizuka to do it so he could gain her powers when she came to the Academy.

After Zero devours Ichiru and the powers from the Pureblood Blood inside him awaken, he goes after Rido. It's as if Kaname knew Zero would want to kill him for revenge...Kaname has used everyone as pawns, although not "manipulating" them, but by there own will; He took advantage of everyone surrounding Yuki. Kaname now tried to take Yuki away with him to the Mansion forcefully, telling her if she wanted him to feel the pain he felt those ten years...But to me it was like a bribe, trying to force her to come with him. I have always wondered if Kaname never really intended on having a romantic relationship with Yuki, but wanting to use her as an important pawn on the chess board...Next, again Zero and Yuki are together in a team, them still allies even though they are enemies. They eliminate Rido, and then they part with a hug and a passionate kiss Zero tasted her feelings for him in her blood, and kissed her, showing his own feelings before they part. It was an intense and emotional moment in ZeKi, both sad and beautiful. Even though Zero had sworn to kill her the next time they met that day, it's so obvious that he could never do such a thing. He's still attached to her human side and even though shes a vampire, he still loves her. Parting, Yuki leaves with Kaname to the Kuran Mansion...

Now, at the Mansion, I must say that Yuki was very annoying :P It's as if she didn't know what she wanted anymore...She said so herself that her heart was still attached to Zero, although she was there with Kaname, she couldn't escape her memories from her human past. It also would be almost impossible for her to manage being indoors for a whole year...Thats enough for anyone to go insane. She was a human and had freedom for 10 years, and then suddenly is in a house, not seeing the outside world at all. Imagine knowing what it was like outside, but not being able to go out...She also was thirsty...And I really believe that she was craving more for Zero's blood, since she was always thirsty after drinking Kaname's... And to me them being together was just plain depressing...She was unsure of her own feelings, which made me extremely frustrated....Then she decides to go out one day with her Artemis, being attacked by Toma and taken to the Associating by Zero...She almost bitten him, calling his scent "nostalgic", which means that she's missed him, his scent, and her memories, which is all contained in his blood...To bad she didn't bite him that time LOL I think it was because of the bats in the background? Or because she wanted to keep her promise with Kaname? Then she leaves him, runs back to Kaname and says she'll accept any punishment...She is acting and being treated like a child with Kaname....However Zero treats her like a woman

Next, Kaname reveals his bloody past to Yuki...Him being the Ancestor and such...You know the story :P Yuki seems to not know what "love" itself feels like...Proof: "This feeling...I wonder what this feeling is..." While being near the Hooded Woman in Kaname's past, she says those words, meaning that she doesn't know what the feeling of love. Kaname did love the HW, and it's possible that he was in a relationship with her...I wonder if the hunters were born from Kaname and the HW themselves?

Yuki, after seeing his memories, she was happier as Kaname as her "Older Brother" so she is obviously not satisfied with him, so that is likely why Kaname left her, because he expected more from Yuki. Kaname leaves, and then kills Hadangi and Aidou Dono, disappearing again.

Yuki now is at the Academy with Zero, the head of the Night Class. During that time Yuki and Zero were starting to be together a lot more Now the first ZeKi bite in chapter 74...To me I thought it was not just because of her wanting it to continue with her job. I think that really has craved for Zero's blood...I mean he offered his wrist but she went straight for his neck. And the bite continued on the next chapter...She was so close to him; Why would she be so close to him? That'd be afterward around my friend XD I think their relationship is not just a friendship brotherly love....

With Kaname's absence at the Academy, Zero and Yuki are allies once again. Like with the incident with the blood tablets...LOL I haven't mentioned Sara yet have I? OK Well Sara is obviously wanting to become Queen, but I wonder if she'll give up her plans for Takuma, well if she really loves him... :P
Now lets fast-forward all the way back to chapter 79...That chapter really made me feel like crying...It was so GOOD XD The ZeKi hug was just purely awesome! And after Kaname revealed he was the one who released Shizuka, Yuki IMO was crying for Zero. The way they stared at each other at the end of that chapter was so sweet *__*

Chapter 80...Zero had agreed to to what Yuki wanted him to do...He agreed to help Sara. Yuki and Zero's relationship is starting to develop and strengthen again. Pulling him back...She's missed him
Chapter 81, the latest chapter, was incredible. Yuki is finally no longer acting like a child with Kaname; she's ready to fight Kaname...She even stated, "I wont let you do anything you want anymore, even if I have to tear you apart.." Zero, however, I'm worried about...What would Sara's blood do to him? With all the Pureblood Blood he has inside him, he must have enough power to not become controlled...And, about Zero's thoughts in the beginning of chapter 81, I don't think that he thinks Yuki is dead... He thought of Yuki as both a Vampire and a Human...Saying why does he still have hope and why she still looks at him the same way as she used to...I think Zero is starting to realize that she's still the same And he's growing to accept her for what she is...It's a start to ZeKi developing again

Yuki's blood, Kaname's blood, Shizuka's blood, Ichiru's blood and now Sara's blood...Imagine the amount of power he will have now....Wow XD I think that next chapter there will be a battle between Zero and Kaname That'd be epic!

ZeKi...To know each other from top to bottom...That is Love...To know each other's weakness's and strengths..That is Love. ZeKi is Love no matter what people say, that's what I will always believe in.

OK Well that concludes my long post...XD If I've missed anything fellow ZeKi's please give me a shout! LOL

BTW I agree with you Hyacinth! And yes Yuki giving Zero her chocolate was so cute! <3 Even little things like that show that their relationship is a special one! Hehe

[Kikotsukino]

I believe that Yuki and Zero have always been the main focus in the first arc, Zero and Yuki as the Guardians of the school (Major role) Zero's fall to Level (Forbidden Act) His tragedy, Shizuka and Ichiru coming to the Academy, all evolving around Zero. ZeKi was always the main focus, and as much as Kaname was there for Yuki, he was always protecting her behind the scenes. Plus, both of them own the original hunter weapons, which is sort of like the chains of fate

This is going to be a long post because I want to define everything ZeKi has been through until now....

Rewind back to Chapter 2....

Yuki's first sight of Zero was, of course, that night his parents were killed. But we never really known why he went directly to Headmaster Cross in the first place, I mean the Hunter Association could have took him in at the time. I think Kaname had wanted Yuki and Zero to bond and connect with eacother so Zero would have a reason to protect her, but I think he intended on them just becoming friends; I don't think he would have thought they would feel something more for eachother. Yuki always had wanted to stay by Zero's side regardless of everything. She wanted to cherish Zero. To stay with him no matter what...Their relationship to some is just thought of a pure sympathy, but in my opinion I believe that Yuki really does love Zero.

Now, them becoming Guardians... Zero did want to kill all vampires...But I think that now some part of him really does feel for them a little. Protecting the Day Class from the Night Class's dark secret...That was what we all must have thought the story was going to be about in the beginning. The whole story changed so drastically which is what makes Vampire Knight such an awesome manga to read

Anyway, firstly, Yuki never knew Zero's secret for four years because he never told her. Zero kept it all inside because he was afraid she would become afraid of him. Zero also wanted to protect her; All that time he held all of his bloody past inside was just making him feel more pain. Yuki eventually discovered it by him drinking her blood, which was because of his hunger, not because he wanted to. He hates what he's become, and that really makes me sad. Yuki says that she wants to protect him, help him, and to stop Zero's lust for blood getting worse; She gave him her own blood...A forbidden act that Yuki would never regret doing because she wanted to save his life.

Now, the whole "Shizuka incident" is so damn huge that we still don't know much. From what Kaname stated, he was the one who released her; But I think that he must have done something more, something direct, or behind Rido's actions. How could Shizuka's Lover have been killed if she was with him when they ran away together? Kaname must have done something else..Maybe Zero knows something more now? It's confuses me when I think about it too much...

Shizuka came to the Academy for Kaname's blood, more power so she could destroy the one who caused her Lover to be killed. Or maybe she just had something against Kaname and wanted him dead? Well she came to the Academy in Maria Kuranai's body, which Zero had noticed who she was because of their "Blood Bond". Even when Zero was fighting Maria and willing to die along with Shizuka, Yuki was still there for him the whole time. She wanted to sacrifice her own life, instead of killing Kaname or having Zero die; Because she Loved them both equally. Even now Yuki was willing to go after Kaname for what he had done, which is a big step for Yuki since she has been holding back her anger for so long. Kaname killed Shizuka, drinking her blood and being told that there will be nothing but darkness in his path...

Then one day`Zero has an unsettling dream, one he killed Yuki in. Awakening from his dream, he almost kisses her...I was like, DAMN IT ZERO!! WHY?? XD I actually think that he didn't because he thought that he's a vampire, and she's a human, plus she already desire's someone else in her heart, so he didn't kiss her He only wants her to be happy, so he would do anything to keep her happy...I get sad just thinking about it...He's willing to give up his life for her...Poor Zero...IMO I think that he really need Yuki...I know Kaname does too but, he's already experienced those feelings...

Yuki then starts to really wonder what happened in her past, wanting answers. Now again, Yuki and Zero are a team on this, solving the puzzle. Kaname wasn't with her through that or the important parts in her life; ZeKi have always been the ones finding the pieces. Going to the Association, she can't find anything about her past because it's all burnt by, who or what, we still don't know, but it's possible that Kaname was trying to keep her from remembering her past. Then Yuki starts to question Kaname about her past, but he refuses to answer. Why couldn't he just tell her? Even if it was for her own good and her protection, why not tell her the truth? And even though Yuki said that she still loved Kaname in front of Zero, Zero still supported her. Zero was encouraging Yuki to get closer to Kaname because he cared only for her happiness. He would do absolutely anything for Yuki because he loves her that much. Now Kaname said that he would only tell her her past if she would become his Lover, which IMO is a little forceful..I mean as I said before, why not tell her???

Yuki being turned into a vampire was a very forceful and harsh bite IMO. Well then again, all the bites in VK are harsh :P I think that it would have been better if she drunk the the blood of Kuran as a human...She would have been human and regained her memories right? When Yuki regained her memories as a Pureblood Vampire, she seemed confused and uncomfortable because she had been a human for so long...And when Kaname was biting her, she even said that it was her punishment for hurting Zero (Becoming a vampire) And IMO I believe that Yuki thinks that she has to choose either her vampire side or her human side, and she is getting confused about herself and who she really is. So...WHO IS THE TRUE YUKI?

Now Rido, he wanted Yuki's blood for more power (Why is it always the goal of villains? To be in control and to have power) :P Anyway, Kaname the whole time used Zero so he could fully exterminate Rido and to be freed from Rido's spell...Which was very selfish to do so. Even if it for Yuki's sake, he shouldn't have be meddling with the lives of others. Why use Shizuka? Kaname could have easily turned Zero himself if he wanted to, unless he specifically wanted Shizuka to do it so he could gain her powers when she came to the Academy.

After Zero devours Ichiru and the powers from the Pureblood Blood inside him awaken, he goes after Rido. It's as if Kaname knew Zero would want to kill him for revenge...Kaname has used everyone as pawns, although not "manipulating" them, but by there own will; He took advantage of everyone surrounding Yuki. Kaname now tried to take Yuki away with him to the Mansion forcefully, telling her if she wanted him to feel the pain he felt those ten years...But to me it was like a bribe, trying to force her to come with him. I have always wondered if Kaname never really intended on having a romantic relationship with Yuki, but wanting to use her as an important pawn on the chess board...Next, again Zero and Yuki are together in a team, them still allies even though they are enemies. They eliminate Rido, and then they part with a hug and a passionate kiss Zero tasted her feelings for him in her blood, and kissed her, showing his own feelings before they part. It was an intense and emotional moment in ZeKi, both sad and beautiful. Even though Zero had sworn to kill her the next time they met that day, it's so obvious that he could never do such a thing. He's still attached to her human side and even though shes a vampire, he still loves her. Parting, Yuki leaves with Kaname to the Kuran Mansion...

Now, at the Mansion, I must say that Yuki was very annoying :P It's as if she didn't know what she wanted anymore...She said so herself that her heart was still attached to Zero, although she was there with Kaname, she couldn't escape her memories from her human past. It also would be almost impossible for her to manage being indoors for a whole year...Thats enough for anyone to go insane. She was a human and had freedom for 10 years, and then suddenly is in a house, not seeing the outside world at all. Imagine knowing what it was like outside, but not being able to go out...She also was thirsty...And I really believe that she was craving more for Zero's blood, since she was always thirsty after drinking Kaname's... And to me them being together was just plain depressing...She was unsure of her own feelings, which made me extremely frustrated....Then she decides to go out one day with her Artemis, being attacked by Toma and taken to the Associating by Zero...She almost bitten him, calling his scent "nostalgic", which means that she's missed him, his scent, and her memories, which is all contained in his blood...To bad she didn't bite him that time LOL I think it was because of the bats in the background? Or because she wanted to keep her promise with Kaname? Then she leaves him, runs back to Kaname and says she'll accept any punishment...She is acting and being treated like a child with Kaname....However Zero treats her like a woman

Next, Kaname reveals his bloody past to Yuki...Him being the Ancestor and such...You know the story :P Yuki seems to not know what "love" itself feels like...Proof: "This feeling...I wonder what this feeling is..." While being near the Hooded Woman in Kaname's past, she says those words, meaning that she doesn't know what the feeling of love. Kaname did love the HW, and it's possible that he was in a relationship with her...I wonder if the hunters were born from Kaname and the HW themselves?

Yuki, after seeing his memories, she was happier as Kaname as her "Older Brother" so she is obviously not satisfied with him, so that is likely why Kaname left her, because he expected more from Yuki. Kaname leaves, and then kills Hadangi and Aidou Dono, disappearing again.

Yuki now is at the Academy with Zero, the head of the Night Class. During that time Yuki and Zero were starting to be together a lot more Now the first ZeKi bite in chapter 74...To me I thought it was not just because of her wanting it to continue with her job. I think that really has craved for Zero's blood...I mean he offered his wrist but she went straight for his neck. And the bite continued on the next chapter...She was so close to him; Why would she be so close to him? That'd be afterward around my friend XD I think their relationship is not just a friendship brotherly love....

With Kaname's absence at the Academy, Zero and Yuki are allies once again. Like with the incident with the blood tablets...LOL I haven't mentioned Sara yet have I? OK Well Sara is obviously wanting to become Queen, but I wonder if she'll give up her plans for Takuma, well if she really loves him... :P
Now lets fast-forward all the way back to chapter 79...That chapter really made me feel like crying...It was so GOOD XD The ZeKi hug was just purely awesome! And after Kaname revealed he was the one who released Shizuka, Yuki IMO was crying for Zero. The way they stared at each other at the end of that chapter was so sweet *__*

Chapter 80...Zero had agreed to to what Yuki wanted him to do...He agreed to help Sara. Yuki and Zero's relationship is starting to develop and strengthen again. Pulling him back...She's missed him
Chapter 81, the latest chapter, was incredible. Yuki is finally no longer acting like a child with Kaname; she's ready to fight Kaname...She even stated, "I wont let you do anything you want anymore, even if I have to tear you apart.." Zero, however, I'm worried about...What would Sara's blood do to him? With all the Pureblood Blood he has inside him, he must have enough power to not become controlled...And, about Zero's thoughts in the beginning of chapter 81, I don't think that he thinks Yuki is dead... He thought of Yuki as both a Vampire and a Human...Saying why does he still have hope and why she still looks at him the same way as she used to...I think Zero is starting to realize that she's still the same And he's growing to accept her for what she is...It's a start to ZeKi developing again

Yuki's blood, Kaname's blood, Shizuka's blood, Ichiru's blood and now Sara's blood...Imagine the amount of power he will have now....Wow XD I think that next chapter there will be a battle between Zero and Kaname That'd be epic!

ZeKi...To know each other from top to bottom...That is Love...To know each other's weakness's and strengths..That is Love. ZeKi is Love no matter what people say, that's what I will always believe in.

OK Well that concludes my long post...XD If I've missed anything fellow ZeKi's please give me a shout! LOL

BTW I agree with you Hyacinth! And yes Yuki giving Zero her chocolate was so cute! <3 Even little things like that show that their relationship is a special one! Hehe

Wow that is long!!!
Well Sassy, this post is really contradicting to your post made in the unusual pairing thread.
Here's a snapshot that i took on my end xD

<< I totally agree with what you said about how Zero x Yuuki is the unusual pairing in Vampire Knight... Good job!! for pointing this out!! Considering what the first poster << said here:

Just wondering. What kind of pairings....throw you off the most? Or seem unusual in your vision? Personally, mind is SaraxTakuma, this pairing is actually possible, but I really don't want Takuma-sama to be tortured for life.....

Of course on my end its Zeki (considering i am a die-hard/loyal Yume fan all the way for me!! Why i say Zeki >> I have replied to you in there, if you want to check my comments xD

Do you mind explaining this to me? HOW is Zeki an "Unusual pairing" to you in that thread/AND here, you listed Zeki as a possible pairing/OR put this in better words "a pairing that you like"??

Well, on second thought, im happy you [Sassy] did not include Kaname x Yuuki as the unusual pairing on your end . Because according to how that question was asked, "Unusual pairing" is a pairing that "throw you off the most" (i.e a pairing you DONT like) xD. To me, Zeki suit my criteria (to be listed in there) >> because 1) I am a Yume shipper and 2) I never see Zeki a possible pairing to me (I have my reasons) Zekis are free to disagree *because i dont want to feel like i am enforcing my opinion onto you guys..." Unusual pairing>> leading to a very unpopular and unusual in (your mind) >> Yep! thats how i think on Zeki, considering how i have been saying in all my past-argument "Zero-Yuuki" is like a family to me. Nothing more than this << to me [This is in my opinion] << I disagree with you in here, but lol, I agree with you in the "Unusual pairing thread", Sassy (considering i feel the same about how Zeki is an "Unusual pairing to me" [for a better understanding on how I view this 'unusual pairing" read my reply to you in
THAT thread xD

For me its Yume and Zeria all the way >> since i believe Kaname <> Yuuki / Zero <>Maria deserves a happy ending!!

[Tea.]

Nice post, SassyKnight! I'd like to make a similar post sometime in the future. ^^!

But wow, so many posts were purged. lol Forgive me for replying to what may be considered “older” posts. orz

However if you're saying that you're just put off by it because as a human you can't seem wrap your mind around the idea even if it's applied to a fictional story well then, touché. I don't know how else I could explain Yuki and Kaname's relationship to you in a way you'd understand.

I’m assuming this is a general statement to cool off everyone’s pants, so don‘t worry too much about my reply if it comes off confrontational, it’s not supposed to. xD Allow me to explain my take in a more succinct way [edit: succinct? I meant verbose lol.]

I understand it’s said to be okay in VK, and I actually wouldn’t normally base a whole argument against Yume on it, but I can see what some people see wrong in it. Let me try to explain…

As you can see in my last post, I was pointing out the psychological aspect of it. The part where you say “as a human you can’t seem to wrap your mind around the idea” and using the “fictional story” part to justify it is pretty polarizing. That’s probably a big reason why most people find a Yume ending convoluted. Even stories like Harry Potter, or science fiction stories that take place on other planets, hold emotions and psychology on a universal platform. We ARE human, and so we find very human things in music and stories to relate to and enjoy. VK itself started out with a very human perspective, but if it were to then end with, “Well, you may not understand this as you are human, but this is ending with these two characters because they’re both purebloods [which you’ll never understand because you‘re human!] and now they will live together until the sun explodes…” would, again… be… polarizing. [Actually, that’d be pretty funny xD ... errr, sorry. xD]

Emotion and psychology should always be accounted for, because as a conscious being, we should all feel and think, and I don‘t think Matsuri Hino would create characters who did not feel as we do. Her purebloods, or vampires, don‘t lack emotion. So, as I said in my last post, psychological repercussions of being raised the way she was, Yuuki’s overall perception of Kaname should be looked at from a realistic viewpoint. Do you think that this is wrong?

Now that she has all her memories back, does she just ignore and select her own memories? But that’s impossible. I’m not saying Yuuki’s perception IS MOST CERTAINLY off, but I am saying there’s a possibility of her not being fully able to understand her own emotions in regards to Kaname. In this way, a concept like incest could be very unhealthy. To at first know a boy as your older brother, then to see him as a secretly admired, then to finding out it is your brother again while knowing all about social taboos as well as all the time she spent with him as a child…. then to finding out he’s actually none of those things and is an ancestor from 10,000 years ago, is she able to pick apart her emotions and become truly complacent with their relationship? She’s not even getting the older brother she was promised as a baby/child, but a stranger [essentially].

Everything she has already been through is woven deeply into her character, or do such concepts not carry the same weight in this story? I know people like to say that such things wouldn’t be addressed in a simple shoujo manga, but I’d like to think Matsuri Hino wouldn’t ignore such widely held concepts [that of emotion and basic psychology].


Oh yeah, and I’m sorry mods, but I’d like to address a couple of things. I don’t mean to sling mud, I’d just like to justify myself. I won’t reply to everything as planned. orz

lol .... It's alright if you don't see hints ...How do you read a story if you didn't look for hints, same like you live in the world how do you live if you didn't see your future? I never said Zeki's hint is smallest thing.... Please show me where I said..

Because it was the one directed at me, I’ll point this out…

hahaha lol...So let's see next chapter (s)...and hope you will come and debate again about VK, not another story of yours..

Saying “not another story of yours” is you implying that I’m reading a different story entirely because my take on it doesn’t match up with yours. This is after I went through great effort to explain my viewpoint of the story, giving quotes and talking about incidents, taking “hints” and using past examples to reason, but you dismissed it like this.

Why do you come to discuss here? to show your intelligence? I am free to debate and discuss with everyone here as well as I can say only "disagree" and "agree" without telling other words in my comment. I saw you are newbie here... I repeated my comments many times already you could go reading there... or start reading since page 1. I'm too lazy to repeat and repeat it all the time... I myself considered that this was same as before and it would never end.. I wanted to end my argument. Neither I wanted to insist my points till the end of argument nor I failed to find facts to show you. I feel free to discuss but I don't think it's worth to discuss with you.. I am sure we would end up flaming each other and it's irritate for all of us. I hope you understand... Insistence on something repeatedly is immature…

No, but I do come here in hopes of having an intelligent debate, meaning baseless opinions are not what I hope to see. Let me just say, if you don’t want to repeat things, there’s no reason for you to reply. You don’t have to reply to every post that is addressed to you that contains a subject that you aren’t interested in debating all over again. As you say, forums are open to newbies, so expect to see a lot of old discussions recycled. If you don’t have the patience to deal with that, then it’s best to not reply instead of finishing your posts with “look at older posts” “I can’t be bothered” “I’m too lazy”. those kinds of words leave a bad taste in everyone’s mouths because you’re dismissing someone outright. If what you say is true, “insistence on something repeatedly is immature,” then why keep replying if all you’ll end a discussion with is dismissive words? It seems rather pointless to me.

I am a newbie, and I want intelligent conversation, and in order to obtain that, not just me, but veterans willing to indulge me need to take old subjects and apply them to new ones in order to prove a point. When they can no longer prove a point, then one must try to meet at a middle ground or realize the other side may be right… or… I guess ignore everything they said, if they‘d rather. That’s how this process usually works. If you don’t like that, then it’s best for you to literally dismiss the comment [not reply] that contains things you don’t want to discuss in great detail instead of replying dismissively to something that will eventually [and most certainly] go into greater detail. I’m not telling you to stop posting, I’m just saying that you should pick and choose when to post in regards to your obvious posting preferences instead of telling everyone that it’s a waste of your time to do so.


Okay, I'm sorry. I won't go off topic again. orz

[steffyraal]

O.o

If Yuuki wasn't against crimes then why is she repeatedly saying she wants to stop what Kaname is doing? Why was she swinging Artemis at him this chapter? I repeat: swinging Artemis at him. O.o

The reason she and Zero killed Rido shouldn't have to be explained. And the very reason she decided to play a reaper was so purebloods wouldn't end up using and killing other people if they wanted to end their life = committing crimes to die. This argument totally contradicts your point.

Hino herself said this; Kaname represent her evil side, Zero her hesistant side, and Yuuki her sense of justice. Yuuki accepted that Kaname killed the senate because they had grown corrupted. However now, he killed Aidou's father, countless purebloods who only were sleeping or hasn't done anything as far as we (or more importantly, Yuuki knows) and according to him, he was the main cause behind Zero's tragedy (whether this is true or not isn't the point here, Yuuki so far appears to believe it). Where did you get the impression she doesn't have anything against all of this? It certainly couldn't have been from this chapter. O.o Or does this mean Hino herself isn't against crimes?

(In case it's not clear, not trying to be rude, just lost as to how you concluded that Yuuki doesn't mind- in other words, supports crimes. What a nice heroine directed at teenage girls she'd be in that case.)

A person who is completely against crime won’t participate in committing one – rido’s case - and definitely won’t be willing to commit another one – when she played the reaper. A person completely against crime would try to find alternatives to replace them no matter what since that person would be against her/his own beliefs if does otherwise.

But since yuuki is willing to commit crimes no matter what reasons stays behind her deccisons means she's not completely against crimes.

Yuuki is against unjustified crimes not the justified ones. Currently kaname’s doings are unjustified, and this is the reason why yuuki is trying to stop kaname – she is still kept in the dark about kaname’s reasons. But kaname’s unjustified crimes might become justified in the following chapters – about kaname’s reasons to accomplish his original plan are still unknown since hino didn’t give us the pleasure to know about them.

In vampire knight even a character who doesn’t want to kill is forced to due to some special circumstances.

>>> yuuki – even if she doesn’t like violence at some point in the manga existed situations when she was forced to attacked a vampire with the intention to kill. The moment she decided to end the life of another one automatically she accepted the crime she was about to commit.

>>> kaien cross, who in the past decided to not kill vampires anymore but he broke up his promise because in the first arc he was forced by circumstances to pick up his weapon again and kill the vampires who tried to put in danger day class.

>>> another example is kaname: no matter how gentle kaname was in his ancestor time he decided to protect the human species from his own kind because many of them turned humans into their slaves. His love for humans, and his desire to protect them made him to find out solutions for human salvation – the creation of anti-vampire weapons – and later to eliminate the ones who use humans at their own pleasure.

And now even if for some kaname’s doings seems to be so suddenly and out of nowhere it cannot be true. Long before kaname leaving yuuki, small children were kidnapped. Who’s the master beyond that? Sara started to make plans to become queen – she turned human girls into vampires, she killed and devoured ouri, she turned the pharmaceutical company into a vampire against his will. In the night kaname left yuuki, sara broke to spell around hanadagi’s castle and ripped his heart out his chest.

About aidou-dono’s death – this is still bugging me. Why would kaname save him in a moment and kill him in the next one? Now days existe the theory that he might be alive, and what we had seen in that chapter is another illusion of ruka. I do not know if it’s true or false, but if we assume that he is dead remains the question: What kaname say him before chopping his head off that made aidou-dono accept his death? Here we are missing an important detail – too bad hino didn’t satisfy our curiosity after so many chapters.

********************************
Sassy – due to lack of time I would comment just few paragraphs of your post.

But we never really known why he went directly to Headmaster Cross in the first place, I mean the Hunter Association could have took him in at the time. I think Kaname had wanted Yuki and Zero to bond and connect with eacother so Zero would have a reason to protect her, but I think he intended on them just becoming friends;

In one chapter yagari mention that he should have been the one to take zero in custody but since he was busy investigating zero’s parents murder he couldn’t do it – this is the reason why zero ended up in kaien’s care (kaname has no involvement with it).

Yuki says that she wants to protect him, help him, and to stop Zero's lust for blood getting worse; She gave him her own blood...A forbidden act that Yuki would never regret doing because she wanted to save his life.

Of course she wanted to protect zero since they grow up together for the last four years and she thought at him as a family member. Even if she didn’t regret giving her blood to zero, her heart ached so.

Chapter 9, volume 2:
I will not regret what I made zero do. Never. But why my heart ache so?

Now, the whole "Shizuka incident" is so damn huge that we still don't know much. From what Kaname stated, he was the one who released her; But I think that he must have done something more, something direct, or behind Rido's actions. How could Shizuka's Lover have been killed if she was with him when they ran away together? Kaname must have done something else..Maybe Zero knows something more now? It's confuses me when I think about it too much... :P

In the past some wanted kaname so badly to be behind zero’s drama that they overlooked manga completely.
First it was – kaname changed the list – some even believed that or still believe even if manga states that the one behind changing the list is rido.

Second it was - Since it was told that kaname released shizuka some believed kaname’s lie even if manga states crystal clear that shizuka escaped together with her lover, thus kaname reason of releasing her is false.
Even with all these proves which obviously show that kaname wasn’t directly involved in zero’s drama some still want to believe kaname is still the culprit. I wonder why?

Probably kaname reason to release her was because he pitied her – she was locked into a cage and deprived of love. However I do think kaname in a way feels guilty for what happened after he released shizuka. Even if he bears no guilt for what happened after, he probably blames himself for releasing her – if she wouldn’t have been free she wouldn’t have kill. It’s not something un-common for kaname or for Kuran’s:

>>> even if kaname isn’t the one who killed baby kaname he still think at himself as the one who killed him since the baby was used as sacrifice for his awakening.

>>> another kuran who blames herself for others misery is yuuki – she thinks her parents died because of her; she blames herself for being a vampire causing sufferance to zero. She’s not guilty of these – she couldn’t have control over these - but she still thinks as she is guilty.

Shizuka came to the Academy for Kaname's blood, more power so she could destroy the one who caused her Lover to be killed. Or maybe she just had something against Kaname and wanted him dead?

The reason why shizuka came to cross academy was to kill kaname in her attempt to gain more power. She wanted power because she wanted to kill the one responsible for changing her fate. From the quote beneath is obvious that kaname’s and shizuka’s goal was the same – to kill rido and the ones associated with him.

Chapter 20, volume 5: I will make sure your life was not in vain. I shall destroy what you truly hated. Those who twisted our fate…the fate of purebloods.

Then Yuki starts to question Kaname about her past, but he refuses to answer. Why couldn't he just tell her? Even if it was for her own good and her protection, why not tell her the truth? And even though Yuki said that she still loved Kaname in front of Zero, Zero still supported her. Zero was encouraging Yuki to get closer to Kaname because he cared only for her happiness. He would do absolutely anything for Yuki because he loves her that much. Now Kaname said that he would only tell her her past if she would become his Lover, which IMO is a little forceful..I mean as I said before, why not tell her???

Why kaname didn’t tell her? I would take kaname’s approach from manga, chapter 31, volume 7:

I refuse to answer yuuki’s questions for her sake.

Kaname knew that soon yuuki would be in danger. One of his reason to make her his lover (his love feelings for her cannot be questioned) is because he needed a reason why he’s protecting her. It would have been strange if he would have decided to protect her out of nowhere (in yuuki’s pov).

Yuki being turned into a vampire was a very forceful and harsh bite IMO. Well then again, all the bites in VK are harsh :P I think that it would have been better if she drunk the the blood of Kuran as a human...She would have been human and regained her memories right?

I hope you’re not serious about the bolded part. Of course that would have been better for yuuki if you’re rido.
If yuuki would have drank kaname’s blood while she was a human, yuuki would have been driven insane. Turning her into a vampire first and later giving her his blood yuuki woke up without pain.

Chapter 36, volume 8:

kaname went to the trouble of restoring that girl to her vampiric state. He woke her up without any pain. But she’d have been happier if she had drunk the blood of kuran as a “human” and gone insane as she awoke.

Kaname now tried to take Yuki away with him to the Mansion forcefully, telling her if she wanted him to feel the pain he felt those ten years...But to me it was like a bribe, trying to force her to come with him.

Kaname did not take away yuuki forcefully – it was her own decision. After she parted ways with zero she came into her room and she chose the rose resin to take away with her and not the picture with her and zero.
Before kaname leaving to kill the senate she initiated a kiss and said she would returned into his arms. Yuuki went willingly with the man she’s in love with, she wasn’t forced.

and then they part with a hug and a passionate kiss Zero tasted her feelings for him in her blood, and kissed her, showing his own feelings before they part.

What feelings did he taste in yuuki’s blood? Romantically feelings for him? How is this possible when her mind was filled only with thoughts about kaname? while yuuki was in zero’s arms (Chapter 46, volume 10) she said the followings:

The yuuki who regained memories and “I” are the same. The boundaries keep dissolving and I realize I want only my big brother’s blood…it fills my head.

And zero kissing yuuki was his farewell to the dead, and not as the result of him seeing/sensing some romantic feelings in her blood for his person.

And I really believe that she was craving more for Zero's blood, since she was always thirsty after drinking Kaname's...

If she was craving for zero’s blood more than kaname’s then why she didn’t say so? What I saw in the manga was her wish to drink kaname’s blood to the extent to devour him, while she had not such thought for zero.

Many interpreted yuuki’s words from chapter 51 as her desire for zero’s blood. But the chronological events showed us that she didn’t wish for his blood at all. In chapter 74, after she drank zero’s blood she said she drank the blood of a man she never intended to wish for. If chapter 51 was confused for some, chapter 74 cleared the misunderstanding.

When she woke up for the first time, after she pushed kaname down of the bed mattress she said: “I want ONLY this man blood.” And few chapters later she said to zero she desire ONLY kaname’s blood.

I wonder if the hunters were born from Kaname and the HW themselves?

I wonder how I should approach this? it’s not clear how hunter appeared? I thought it is stated very clearly in the manga. But anyway, I should explain – the hooded woman ripped her heart out her chest and threw it into a furnace, and later she gave her blood to the humans. Some of them died but some survived. The survivors became hunters, and were able to wield the weapons which was created from that metallic soup.

Kaname’s role in this matter is – he was the one who gave them wisdom. They wouldn’t have known what to do if it wasn’t him.

Yuki, after seeing his memories, she was happier as Kaname as her "Older Brother" so she is obviously not satisfied with him, so that is likely why Kaname left her, because he expected more from Yuki. Kaname leaves, and then kills Hadangi and Aidou Dono, disappearing again.

The first thing yuuki did after she woke up was to run to the place where kaname was. She even hugged him while she confessed him she wanted him to be on her side. She wanted to start anew with kaname, and before kaname leaving she wanted him to stay home and cuddle with her. Ancestor or not, yuuki accepted him and wanted to stay with him.
No matter how much I would read those chapters I doubt I would get the vibe of yuuki being unhappy with kaname being her ancestor.

Now the first ZeKi bite in chapter 74...To me I thought it was not just because of her wanting it to continue with her job. I think that really has craved for Zero's blood...I mean he offered his wrist but she went straight for his neck.

Since in the past I had read many times that yuuki drinking from zero’s neck and not his wrist is a sign of her love, I would take my liberty to interpret your words such as that.

If I would follow your logic and many others that a vampire drinking from the neck is a sign of love then zero must be head over hills in love with sara – after all he drank from her neck. Zero was behind her, tilted her head and sunk his fangs into her throat. But not only that but he did the act in front of hunters – I guessed he doesn’t care anymore. However I doubt sara would respond to his love feelings – after all he drank from her neck – since she’s in love with Takuma.

Another un-sided love for him; I hope the third one would be with luck – doesn’t ouri or isaya have a sister?

Chapter 80...Zero had agreed to to what Yuki wanted him to do...He agreed to help Sara.

What yuuki requested from zero was him protect sara, not him siding with sara, or worse drinking her blood to have his avenge.

ZeKi...To know each other from top to bottom...

When did zeki started to know each other? Before her finding out he’s a vampire or after? Before is impossible since she didn’t understand everything about him – he was a vampire and she knew nothing. And after is hard as well since he tried to kiss her and after she was oblivious to his love feelings for her.

And now is kind of hard as well too – did yuuki knew zero would drink sara’s blood? Did he thought yuuki wants him to drank from sara?
So how they know each other from top to bottom? Or how they understand each other without words being spoken?

[xxDemonHachixx]

No, but I do come here in hopes of having an intelligent debate, meaning baseless opinions are not what I hope to see. Let me just say, if you don’t want to repeat things, there’s no reason for you to reply. You don’t have to reply to every post that is addressed to you that contains a subject that you aren’t interested in debating all over again. As you say, forums are open to newbies, so expect to see a lot of old discussions recycled. If you don’t have the patience to deal with that, then it’s best to not reply instead of finishing your posts with “look at older posts” “I can’t be bothered” “I’m too lazy”. those kinds of words leave a bad taste in everyone’s mouths because you’re dismissing someone outright. If what you say is true, “insistence on something repeatedly is immature,” then why keep replying if all you’ll end a discussion with is dismissive words? It seems rather pointless to me.

I am a newbie, and I want intelligent conversation, and in order to obtain that, not just me, but veterans willing to indulge me need to take old subjects and apply them to new ones in order to prove a point. When they can no longer prove a point, then one must try to meet at a middle ground or realize the other side may be right… or… I guess ignore everything they said, if they‘d rather. That’s how this process usually works. If you don’t like that, then it’s best for you to literally dismiss the comment [not reply] that contains things you don’t want to discuss in great detail instead of replying dismissively to something that will eventually [and most certainly] go into greater detail. I’m not telling you to stop posting, I’m just saying that you should pick and choose when to post in regards to your obvious posting preferences instead of telling everyone that it’s a waste of your time to do so.


Okay, I'm sorry. I won't go off topic again. orz

One thing I want to defend myself I respect every comment when they quote me, even if I disagree I would take my time reading their comments if I could reply. Everytime I show some facts/evidences my posts always are ignored but that is fine for me.. I see you are flaming no me now.. I really have nothing to discuss with you (since the start i have that feeling and tried to agree with you already).. I will skip reading yours next time... I always see newbies gone after debating few chapters.. So enjoy posting!!! I like peaceful discussion... It is hard to see an intelligent debate since we are not.

[Tea.]

One thing I want to defend myself I respect every comment when they quote me, even if I disagree I would take my time reading their comments if I could reply. Everytime I show some facts/evidences my posts always are ignored but that is fine for me.. I see you are flaming no me now.. I really have nothing to discuss with you (since the start i have that feeling and tried to agree with you already).. I will skip reading yours next time... I always see newbies gone after debating few chapters.. So enjoy posting!!! I like peaceful discussion... It is hard to see an intelligent debate since we are not.

Flaming? I wouldn't say what I said is flaming, simply pointing out a discrepancy. If you want to see my voicing of this as flaming, be my guest.

/end.

[Kikotsukino]

Flaming? I wouldn't say what I said is flaming, simply pointing out a discrepancy. If you want to see my voicing of this as flaming, be my guest.

/end.

Really? Your opinion is your opinion. But lets try to be frank here. What you did (the way you word your post) ~ looks to me like you are trying to create the intention to start the flame on your end. What i mean is when 'a topic is close' (to bring some light to the forum)..., and 'someone deliberately brought this up again >> than this is consider 'an intention to start a flame'...
[To me >> and to those **who agree**]

Let's look at some past-examples:
1) I said in a way, since this isnt getting anywhere - lets try debate in a civil manner (both ship)... No matter who's right/who's wrong - lets leave this in the past >> and continue discussing topics civilly... This is what i said on my past-post, when i said that topic has ended...

But since this is over, lets just drop this topic and let us resume to VK discussions!!
IF you are fair to us, than we will be fair to you.... Dont attack us when we place an opinion, and we will respect your opinions... And let's both try to stay in a civil debate << I will try on my end.

And what did you say, when i literally said "lets try to discuss civilly" << I'll try on my end, Actually before i continue... I'll like to say something on my end to Sassy:
LOL!!, as long as you get what im trying to point across in my post to you xD
I DID NOT know that a Zeki fan will say I'm pretty nice << this was a shock on my end, considering i do know some posters in here >> dont really like my lol.




*Continued on*** Well, you see Tea. I can be nice to, considering what Sassy said on her end xD. But what did you do? this is what you said:

I think that was her attempt at pointing out the hypocrisy of saying an attack is an opinion. A lot of people are attacking others and covering it by saying that it is their opinion, sooo… quite clever, girl.

Well, (quite clever girl????) to me? and that is not a (hypocrisy?) on your end in starting this flame?? Well of course you dont see this my way, because (you are not me).. Was that speech even necessary??.... Did i not say that 'topic ended' << I'll try on my end to discuss this civilly... or were you not paying attention? what more do you want? considering what im seeing is your intention to repeat the same issue about the 'incest' not being in a possitive light?"... to indirectly pointing out (how i view) you are placing an attack on Yume shipment (by carrying on this incest issue)... When clearly, xnhassan (i believe is a Zeki fan) >> you can correct me if i am wrong, has ended this issue "Let's drop this whole incest issue"... said on his/her end.

@ the incest

People should try and drop the incest issue.

I think that it has already been nicely explained. Kaname is an ancestor of Yuki's not her actual brother. Also, beyond that there is the fact that they are vampires in a fictional story so the morality issues that exist in terms of incestual relationships as applied to humans in the real world shouldn't be applied here in the same manner, of course it won't make sense.

So, if you're trying to say that the relationship between Kaname and Yuki doesn't make sense because it's incest you're not making that much of a good argument. In the VK world it's been explained that it is actually normal for purebloods to marry their siblings in order to keep their blood line "pure."

However if you're saying that you're just put off by it because as a human you can't seem wrap your mind around the idea even if it's applied to a fictional story well then, touché. I don't know how else I could explain Yuki and Kaname's relationship to you in a way you'd understand.

So what did you do on your end??? *Sigh* you brought the whole topic back into (the forum again) ~

I’m assuming this is a general statement to cool off everyone’s pants, so don‘t worry too much about my reply if it comes off confrontational, it’s not supposed to. xD Allow me to explain my take in a more succinct way [edit: succinct? I meant verbose lol.]

I understand it’s said to be okay in VK, and I actually wouldn’t normally base a whole argument against Yume on it, but I can see what some people see wrong in it. Let me try to explain…

As you can see in my last post, I was pointing out the psychological aspect of it. The part where you say “as a human you can’t seem to wrap your mind around the idea” and using the “fictional story” part to justify it is pretty polarizing. That’s probably a big reason why most people find a Yume ending convoluted. Even stories like Harry Potter, or science fiction stories that take place on other planets, hold emotions and psychology on a universal platform. We ARE human, and so we find very human things in music and stories to relate to and enjoy. VK itself started out with a very human perspective, but if it were to then end with, “Well, you may not understand this as you are human, but this is ending with these two characters because they’re both purebloods [which you’ll never understand because you‘re human!] and now they will live together until the sun explodes…” would, again… be… polarizing. [Actually, that’d be pretty funny xD ... errr, sorry. xD]

Emotion and psychology should always be accounted for, because as a conscious being, we should all feel and think, and I don‘t think Matsuri Hino would create characters who did not feel as we do. Her purebloods, or vampires, don‘t lack emotion. So, as I said in my last post, psychological repercussions of being raised the way she was, Yuuki’s overall perception of Kaname should be looked at from a realistic viewpoint. Do you think that this is wrong?

Now that she has all her memories back, does she just ignore and select her own memories? But that’s impossible. I’m not saying Yuuki’s perception IS MOST CERTAINLY off, but I am saying there’s a possibility of her not being fully able to understand her own emotions in regards to Kaname. In this way, a concept like incest could be very unhealthy. To at first know a boy as your older brother, then to see him as a secretly admired, then to finding out it is your brother again while knowing all about social taboos as well as all the time she spent with him as a child…. then to finding out he’s actually none of those things and is an ancestor from 10,000 years ago, is she able to pick apart her emotions and become truly complacent with their relationship? She’s not even getting the older brother she was promised as a baby/child, but a stranger [essentially].

Everything she has already been through is woven deeply into her character, or do such concepts not carry the same weight in this story? I know people like to say that such things wouldn’t be addressed in a simple shoujo manga, but I’d like to think Matsuri Hino wouldn’t ignore such widely held concepts [that of emotion and basic psychology].

I dont really consider Kaname-Yuuki is classify as incest to be honest. Because they are to far-apart in terms of kin-ship (generation). Kaname is the ancestor NOT brother of Yuuki. Haruka-Juri is 100 % without a doubt incest >> so what?? I love them >> they are my second favorite couple in Vampire Knight.

Kaname-Yuuki is blood related (YES) << this i agree, however i do believe that in reality, "Cousins" are allow to marry within the family - as long as they are not in their first kinship / that close in generation (I believe). How many generations is Kaname (being the ancestor) from Yuuki?? *you count*.. I wouldnt go make assumptions on saying the author does not approve Incest on her end (if i were you)... considering anyone who is paying attention to the manga/story should already know that Hino herself has approve the pureblood intermarry rule. Haruka / Juri is a prime example.

1) they are NOT humans >> they are BEAST << so why are we applying human standards to 'Vampires'?
2) Why are we arguing on something that will not change the whole point of the manga? << this wouldnt change anything considering 'we are not the author'.. of course you are free to point this out on your end.... but doesnt mean WE (YUME >> OR those who agree) necessarily agree with you...I for one "Strongly disagree" to your point of argument.

I dont know if you know, but i do understand that "Some" people is not okay with this incest issue >> that's fine by me, its not like any comments from those posters who is against incest can change anything on their end. They're just OPINIONS and not "Facts presented in the story" << Im okay with opinion, because FACTS is showing me Hino has approve pureblood intermarry rule on her end >> she even go as far as CANONING the pairing YUME xD

Opinions (is allow) << I have no right to disregard their opinions, but just want to point out on my end by saying:

1) 'those ppl' (who object to incest) are NOT Matsuri Hino (author), therefore they are not the one controlling the story
2) On my end, If Hino approve the pureblood intermarry rule >> than im fine. Besides, no matter how fans like to bring the 'incest' into question... It wont affect us (Yume fans) because Hino have created such a touching/tragic romance in Yume (where their love remains mutual and unconditional) >> this is MY definition of true love... Of course those *who disagree* are free to object >> since this is ONLY my opinion xD

[Tea.]

Well, (quite clever girl????) to me? and that is not a (hypocrisy?) on your end in starting this flame?? Well of course you dont see this my way, because (you are not me).. Was that speech even necessary??.... Did i not say that 'topic ended' << I'll try on my end to discuss this civilly... or were you not paying attention? what more do you want? considering what im seeing is your intention to repeat the same issue about the 'incest' not being in a possitive light?"... to indirectly pointing out (how i view) you are placing an attack on Yume shipment (by carrying on this incest issue)... When clearly, xnhassan (i believe is a Zeki fan) >> you can correct me if i am wrong, has ended this issue "Let's drop this whole incest issue"... said on his/her end.

What? Saying "quite clever, girl" is now incentive to start a flame war? And you say "hypocrisy?" My congratulating a girl for pointing OUT hypocrisy is now the start of a flame war? Really? Wow...

And whatever ship that user is on doesn't matter to what my post was pointing out. Does it have to be a Zeki supporter for me to blindly agree with her? I was pointing out a psychological aspect of Yume's relationship. Isn't this the Kaname/Yuuki/Zero pairing discussion thread? Am I supposed to censor myself when talking about psychology to not offend your delicate sensibilities?

So what did you do on your end??? *Sigh* you brought the whole topic back into (the forum again) ~

Yes, I did, and for that, I do apologize.

But would you rather if I laid back and allowed someone to get away with such discrepancies in an argument? That wouldn't be fair to me.

I dont really consider Kaname-Yuuki is classify as incest to be honest. Because they are to far-apart in terms of kin-ship (generation). Kaname is the ancestor NOT brother of Yuuki. Haruka-Juri is 100 % without a doubt incest >> so what?? I love them >> they are my second favorite couple in Vampire Knight.

I know he's not her brother. He's her ancestor... Again, I'm pointing out the psychological aspect of it. Also, I pointed out Juuri and Haruka and how we don't know their entire history together like we do Yuuki, and Yuuki is the main character we have to relate to and we know her entire history, so we can actually base such arguments on her.

Kaname-Yuuki is blood related (YES) << this i agree, however i do believe that in reality, "Cousins" are allow to marry within the family - as long as they are not in their first kinship / that close in generation (I believe). How many generations is Kaname (being the ancestor) from Yuuki?? *you count*.. I wouldnt go make assumptions on saying the author does not approve Incest on her end (if i were you)... considering anyone who is paying attention to the manga/story should already know that Hino herself has approve the pureblood intermarry rule. Haruka / Juri is a prime example.

And AGAIN, I pointed out the psychological aspect of it [read last post]. I don't personally care about their blood, but Yuuki was raised with him as her brother. She can't pick and choose her memories, can she?

1) they are NOT humans >> they are BEAST << so why are we applying human standards to 'Vampires'?

Because it is a story written by a human. They feel as we feel and think as we do. They aren't beasts, obviously. They suck blood and live unspeakably long lives, but that's just about where this "beast" ends.

2) Why are we arguing on something that will not change the whole point of the manga? << this wouldnt change anything considering 'we are not the author'.. of course you are free to point this out on your end.... but doesnt mean WE (YUME >> OR those who agree) necessarily agree with you...I for one "Strongly disagree" to your point of argument.

And that's fine. The whole point of this thread is to discuss the triangle, and I'd like a reply to my posts that addresses what I'm saying, but so far it's only things telling me I'm wrong and that I'm flaming. We all want our ship to win, but if you're only here to fill everyone's... metaphorical ears with such blind words while not listening to reason from others, is there a point in debating anymore?

I dont know if you know, but i do understand that "Some" people is not okay with this incest issue >> that's fine by me, its not like any comments from those posters who is against incest can change anything on their end. They're just OPINIONS and not "Facts presented in the story" << Im okay with opinion, because FACTS is showing me Hino has approve pureblood intermarry rule on her end >> she even go as far as CANONING the pairing YUME xD

Opinions (is allow) << I have no right to disregard their opinions, but just want to point out on my end by saying:

1) 'those ppl' (who object to incest) are NOT Matsuri Hino (author), therefore they are not the one controlling the story
2) On my end, If Hino approve the pureblood intermarry rule >> than im fine. Besides, no matter how fans like to bring the 'incest' into question... It wont affect us (Yume fans) because Hino have created such a touching/tragic romance in Yume (where their love remains mutual and unconditional) >> this is MY definition of true love... Of course those *who disagree* are free to object >> since this is ONLY my opinion xD

lol Yes, we're free to object. Was that ever a question? I'm talking about reason here. *sigh*

Also, canonizing a pairing doesn't have much of an impact on a story notorious for its love triangle.

[_Hyacinth_]

Really? Your opinion is your opinion. But lets try to be frank here. What you did (the way you word your post) ~ looks to me like you are trying to create the intention to start the flame on your end. What i mean is when 'a topic is close' (to bring some light to the forum)..., and 'someone deliberately brought this up again >> than this is consider 'an intention to start a flame'...
[To me >> and to those **who agree**]

Let's look at some past-examples:
1) I said in a way, since this isnt getting anywhere - lets try debate in a civil manner (both ship)... No matter who's right/who's wrong - lets leave this in the past >> and continue discussing topics civilly... This is what i said on my past-post, when i said that topic has ended...

And what did you say, when i literally said "lets try to discuss civilly" << I'll try on my end, Actually before i continue... I'll like to say something on my end to Sassy:
LOL!!, as long as you get what im trying to point across in my post to you xD
I DID NOT know that a Zeki fan will say I'm pretty nice << this was a shock on my end, considering i do know some posters in here >> dont really like my lol.




*Continued on*** Well, you see Tea. I can be nice to, considering what Sassy said on her end xD. But what did you do? this is what you said:

Well, (quite clever girl????) to me? and that is not a (hypocrisy?) on your end in starting this flame?? << I'll try on my end to discuss this civilly... or were you not paying attention? what more do you want?

Kiko, you're just adding more fuel. If you and Hachi think it's a "flame", leave it to the mods than adding a discussion. Tea might actually reply to your post and start this whole circle back again. Example: I'm not going to debate Hachi if Tea flamed her or not. Hachi and Tea said their piece[Regarding "flaming" or not], why add?*EDIT: Wrote this before Tea responded*
-/End-

-Anyway-
SASSY-SIS *runs into arms*
I wish i was able to reply to your amazing post earlier but i was studying and didn't have the time to post a full response.

I believe that Yuki and Zero have always been the main focus in the first arc, Zero and Yuki as the Guardians of the school (Major role) Zero's fall to Level (Forbidden Act) His tragedy, Shizuka and Ichiru coming to the Academy, all evolving around Zero. ZeKi was always the main focus, and as much as Kaname was there for Yuki, he was always protecting her behind the scenes. Plus, both of them own the original hunter weapons, which is sort of like the chains of fate

This is going to be a long post because I want to define everything ZeKi has been through until now....

Rewind back to Chapter 2....

Yuki's first sight of Zero was, of course, that night his parents were killed. But we never really known why he went directly to Headmaster Cross in the first place, I mean the Hunter Association could have took him in at the time. I think Kaname had wanted Yuki and Zero to bond and connect with eacother so Zero would have a reason to protect her, but I think he intended on them just becoming friends; I don't think he would have thought they would feel something more for eachother. Yuki always had wanted to stay by Zero's side regardless of everything. She wanted to cherish Zero. To stay with him no matter what...Their relationship to some is just thought of a pure sympathy, but in my opinion I believe that Yuki really does love Zero.

Now, them becoming Guardians... Zero did want to kill all vampires...But I think that now some part of him really does feel for them a little. Protecting the Day Class from the Night Class's dark secret...That was what we all must have thought the story was going to be about in the beginning. The whole story changed so drastically which is what makes Vampire Knight such an awesome manga to read

Anyway, firstly, Yuki never knew Zero's secret for four years because he never told her. Zero kept it all inside because he was afraid she would become afraid of him. Zero also wanted to protect her; All that time he held all of his bloody past inside was just making him feel more pain. Yuki eventually discovered it by him drinking her blood, which was because of his hunger, not because he wanted to. He hates what he's become, and that really makes me sad. Yuki says that she wants to protect him, help him, and to stop Zero's lust for blood getting worse; She gave him her own blood...A forbidden act that Yuki would never regret doing because she wanted to save his life.

Now, the whole "Shizuka incident" is so damn huge that we still don't know much. From what Kaname stated, he was the one who released her; But I think that he must have done something more, something direct, or behind Rido's actions. How could Shizuka's Lover have been killed if she was with him when they ran away together? Kaname must have done something else..Maybe Zero knows something more now? It's confuses me when I think about it too much... :P

Shizuka came to the Academy for Kaname's blood, more power so she could destroy the one who caused her Lover to be killed. Or maybe she just had something against Kaname and wanted him dead? Well she came to the Academy in Maria Kuranai's body, which Zero had noticed who she was because of their "Blood Bond". Even when Zero was fighting Maria and willing to die along with Shizuka, Yuki was still there for him the whole time. She wanted to sacrifice her own life, instead of killing Kaname or having Zero die; Because she Loved them both equally. Even now Yuki was willing to go after Kaname for what he had done, which is a big step for Yuki since she has been holding back her anger for so long. Kaname killed Shizuka, drinking her blood and being told that there will be nothing but darkness in his path...

Then one day`Zero has an unsettling dream, one he killed Yuki in. Awakening from his dream, he almost kisses her...I was like, DAMN IT ZERO!! WHY?? XD I actually think that he didn't because he thought that he's a vampire, and she's a human, plus she already desire's someone else in her heart, so he didn't kiss her :( He only wants her to be happy, so he would do anything to keep her happy...I get sad just thinking about it...He's willing to give up his life for her...Poor Zero...IMO I think that he really need Yuki...I know Kaname does too but, he's already experienced those feelings...

Yuki then starts to really wonder what happened in her past, wanting answers. Now again, Yuki and Zero are a team on this, solving the puzzle. Kaname wasn't with her through that or the important parts in her life; ZeKi have always been the ones finding the pieces. Going to the Association, she can't find anything about her past because it's all burnt by, who or what, we still don't know, but it's possible that Kaname was trying to keep her from remembering her past. Then Yuki starts to question Kaname about her past, but he refuses to answer. Why couldn't he just tell her? Even if it was for her own good and her protection, why not tell her the truth? And even though Yuki said that she still loved Kaname in front of Zero, Zero still supported her. Zero was encouraging Yuki to get closer to Kaname because he cared only for her happiness. He would do absolutely anything for Yuki because he loves her that much. Now Kaname said that he would only tell her her past if she would become his Lover, which IMO is a little forceful..I mean as I said before, why not tell her???

Yuki being turned into a vampire was a very forceful and harsh bite IMO. Well then again, all the bites in VK are harsh :P I think that it would have been better if she drunk the the blood of Kuran as a human...She would have been human and regained her memories right? When Yuki regained her memories as a Pureblood Vampire, she seemed confused and uncomfortable because she had been a human for so long...And when Kaname was biting her, she even said that it was her punishment for hurting Zero (Becoming a vampire) And IMO I believe that Yuki thinks that she has to choose either her vampire side or her human side, and she is getting confused about herself and who she really is. So...WHO IS THE TRUE YUKI?

Now Rido, he wanted Yuki's blood for more power (Why is it always the goal of villains? To be in control and to have power) :P Anyway, Kaname the whole time used Zero so he could fully exterminate Rido and to be freed from Rido's spell...Which was very selfish to do so. Even if it for Yuki's sake, he shouldn't have be meddling with the lives of others. Why use Shizuka? Kaname could have easily turned Zero himself if he wanted to, unless he specifically wanted Shizuka to do it so he could gain her powers when she came to the Academy.

After Zero devours Ichiru and the powers from the Pureblood Blood inside him awaken, he goes after Rido. It's as if Kaname knew Zero would want to kill him for revenge...Kaname has used everyone as pawns, although not "manipulating" them, but by there own will; He took advantage of everyone surrounding Yuki. Kaname now tried to take Yuki away with him to the Mansion forcefully, telling her if she wanted him to feel the pain he felt those ten years...But to me it was like a bribe, trying to force her to come with him. I have always wondered if Kaname never really intended on having a romantic relationship with Yuki, but wanting to use her as an important pawn on the chess board...Next, again Zero and Yuki are together in a team, them still allies even though they are enemies. They eliminate Rido, and then they part with a hug and a passionate kiss Zero tasted her feelings for him in her blood, and kissed her, showing his own feelings before they part. It was an intense and emotional moment in ZeKi, both sad and beautiful. Even though Zero had sworn to kill her the next time they met that day, it's so obvious that he could never do such a thing. He's still attached to her human side and even though shes a vampire, he still loves her. Parting, Yuki leaves with Kaname to the Kuran Mansion...

Now, at the Mansion, I must say that Yuki was very annoying :P It's as if she didn't know what she wanted anymore...She said so herself that her heart was still attached to Zero, although she was there with Kaname, she couldn't escape her memories from her human past. It also would be almost impossible for her to manage being indoors for a whole year...Thats enough for anyone to go insane. She was a human and had freedom for 10 years, and then suddenly is in a house, not seeing the outside world at all. Imagine knowing what it was like outside, but not being able to go out...She also was thirsty...And I really believe that she was craving more for Zero's blood, since she was always thirsty after drinking Kaname's... And to me them being together was just plain depressing...She was unsure of her own feelings, which made me extremely frustrated....Then she decides to go out one day with her Artemis, being attacked by Toma and taken to the Associating by Zero...She almost bitten him, calling his scent "nostalgic", which means that she's missed him, his scent, and her memories, which is all contained in his blood...To bad she didn't bite him that time LOL I think it was because of the bats in the background? Or because she wanted to keep her promise with Kaname? Then she leaves him, runs back to Kaname and says she'll accept any punishment...She is acting and being treated like a child with Kaname....However Zero treats her like a woman

Next, Kaname reveals his bloody past to Yuki...Him being the Ancestor and such...You know the story :P Yuki seems to not know what "love" itself feels like...Proof: "This feeling...I wonder what this feeling is..." While being near the Hooded Woman in Kaname's past, she says those words, meaning that she doesn't know what the feeling of love. Kaname did love the HW, and it's possible that he was in a relationship with her...I wonder if the hunters were born from Kaname and the HW themselves?

Yuki, after seeing his memories, she was happier as Kaname as her "Older Brother" so she is obviously not satisfied with him, so that is likely why Kaname left her, because he expected more from Yuki. Kaname leaves, and then kills Hadangi and Aidou Dono, disappearing again.

Yuki now is at the Academy with Zero, the head of the Night Class. During that time Yuki and Zero were starting to be together a lot more Now the first ZeKi bite in chapter 74...To me I thought it was not just because of her wanting it to continue with her job. I think that really has craved for Zero's blood...I mean he offered his wrist but she went straight for his neck. And the bite continued on the next chapter...She was so close to him; Why would she be so close to him? That'd be afterward around my friend XD I think their relationship is not just a friendship brotherly love....

With Kaname's absence at the Academy, Zero and Yuki are allies once again. Like with the incident with the blood tablets...LOL I haven't mentioned Sara yet have I? OK Well Sara is obviously wanting to become Queen, but I wonder if she'll give up her plans for Takuma, well if she really loves him... :P
Now lets fast-forward all the way back to chapter 79...That chapter really made me feel like crying...It was so GOOD XD The ZeKi hug was just purely awesome! And after Kaname revealed he was the one who released Shizuka, Yuki IMO was crying for Zero. The way they stared at each other at the end of that chapter was so sweet *__*

Chapter 80...Zero had agreed to to what Yuki wanted him to do...He agreed to help Sara. Yuki and Zero's relationship is starting to develop and strengthen again. Pulling him back...She's missed him
Chapter 81, the latest chapter, was incredible. Yuki is finally no longer acting like a child with Kaname; she's ready to fight Kaname...She even stated, "I wont let you do anything you want anymore, even if I have to tear you apart.." Zero, however, I'm worried about...What would Sara's blood do to him? With all the Pureblood Blood he has inside him, he must have enough power to not become controlled...And, about Zero's thoughts in the beginning of chapter 81, I don't think that he thinks Yuki is dead... He thought of Yuki as both a Vampire and a Human...Saying why does he still have hope and why she still looks at him the same way as she used to...I think Zero is starting to realize that she's still the same And he's growing to accept her for what she is...It's a start to ZeKi developing again

Yuki's blood, Kaname's blood, Shizuka's blood, Ichiru's blood and now Sara's blood...Imagine the amount of power he will have now....Wow XD I think that next chapter there will be a battle between Zero and Kaname That'd be epic!

ZeKi...To know each other from top to bottom...That is Love...To know each other's weakness's and strengths..That is Love. ZeKi is Love no matter what people say, that's what I will always believe in.

OK Well that concludes my long post...XD If I've missed anything fellow ZeKi's please give me a shout! LOL

BTW I agree with you Hyacinth! And yes Yuki giving Zero her chocolate was so cute! <3 Even little things like that show that their relationship is a special one! Hehe

Heh, what am i supposed to say ^^
*Fan-girl mode commence*
1) HELL YES, That was uber cute
2)Yes, Zeki does know each top-&-bottom. Example: Recent chapter- Zero knew her thoughts, he could read her emotions without her even saying anything. Yuuki knows Zero would never criticize her that way, thus letting her see through the illusion. But then again, Zero & Yuuki has spent a great deal of time together, raising & taking care of each other. I think somewhere i read someone feel when Yuuki "picked" out clothes for Zero= more of a sibling/relationship.
But i don't see it that way, since i never had picked out my best friend/brother's clothing. However, i have seen close couples & even my own parents do such a thing. Hell, i even picked out clothing for BF? <<<<But that's my perspective. I don't think, Zeki is just siblings- they were much closer than that. Yuuki was blushing after Zero's "attempted" kiss (WHY ZERO WHY!) Who blushes if their brother figure leans in to kiss them. I'll be thinking it's strange- If i don't have feelings for him that is. lol
3) Zero is realizing it now, i agree ^^ She is the same Yuuki who vowed to stay by his side. I think He's seeing that old yuuki[The one he assumed was dead] in the new [PB] Yuuki. He has/going to realize the girl who loved & watched was never dead in the first place, she just transformed.
----
Yea, if Zero & Kaname fight...It'll be a hell of a fight 0_0 I expect the HA building to no longer be standing X''D
Or Hino could troll us...AGAIN LMFAO:
Zero: It's time....
Kaname: Yes, i've always hated you
Zero: I've always hated you too
*Zero& Kaname stares at each other*
.....*crickets*
Zero: *glares*
Kaname: *glares*
Zero: For Yuuki's sake i won't kill you
Kaname: Agreed. Yuuki would cry if i kill you...
Me: *facepalm* HINO-TROLLAGE never fails X''D