Why Shounen-Ai?

[Nethernity]

I know the gags between Germany and Italy but I think their relationship is leaning more into humorous friendship rather than boy's love so I don't think It's appropriate to include the Shounen-Ai tag, because as I explained, there are no explicit shounen ai, just hints of it so can the tag be removed, because seriously, some people would get turned off by the tag and won't even touch the series.

and besides, all the shounen-ai came from the fandom...

[jarta]

I wonder if you ever read the translated webcomics which btw is first released than the manga itself. Made by Himaruya too which means it is very much canon. Since I don't want for anyone to think that I'm "misinterpreting" anything, I must advice you to read it, especially the non-linear. ---> clicky here

Shall we start with Valentines: (includes GerIta)
http://aph.starry-sky.com/var.html
http://aph.starry-sky.com/tdn.html
http://aph.starry-sky.com/vale.html
(This is where we confirmed that Germany does have a crush in Italy)

And yes, remember Chibitalia?
There's also the confirmed sexuality of Sweden. He's gay for Finland.
Greece and Japan's had sex? Or at least very much implied.
Gay jokes rampant in the series.
There are many shounen ai-ish moments in the manga that can be considered crack or heartwarming.

You're a noob in Hetalia, aren't you?

[teghoune]

I know the gags between Germany and Italy but I think their relationship is leaning more into humorous friendship rather than boy's love so I don't think It's appropriate to include the Shounen-Ai tag, because as I explained, there are no explicit shounen ai, just hints of it so can the tag be removed, because seriously, some people would get turned off by the tag and won't even touch the series.

and besides, all the shounen-ai came from the fandom...

I wonder if you ever read the translated webcomics which btw is first released than the manga itself. Made by Himaruya too which means it is very much canon. Since I don't want for anyone to think that I'm "misinterpreting" anything, I must advice you to read it, especially the non-linear. ---> clicky here

Shall we start with Valentines: (includes GerIta)
http://aph.starry-sky.com/var.html
http://aph.starry-sky.com/tdn.html
http://aph.starry-sky.com/vale.html
(This is where we confirmed that Germany does have a crush in Italy)

And yes, remember Chibitalia?
There's also the confirmed sexuality of Sweden. He's gay for Finland.
Greece and Japan's had sex? Or at least very much implied.
Gay jokes rampant in the series.
There are many shounen ai-ish moments in the manga that can be considered crack or heartwarming.

You're a noob in Hetalia, aren't you?

sorry jarta, but I'm with nethernity here. the first time I saw aph, I didn't bother with it because of it being shounen ai. then, the second time around, I actually misread the shounen ai in aph, and thought, hmm, shounen+history+comedy+slice of life=MUST TRY, MUST READ, WIN! APH would be something I'll recommend to a homophobic male friend, actually. the hints are THAT scarce

err... Actually, Nethernity, it's how you define shounen ai. Shounen ai is milder than yaoi. so, the hints there are what made it shounen ai... probably. I'm just still confused as what is shounen ai. Kuroshitsuji is filled with shounen ai-ness, but nobody ever tagged it as such. what's worse, some people are actually defending the manga to be pure shounen manga, without any trace of shounen ai at all, that it's pure fandom etc etc. you probably have read other hardcore shounen ai and based them as a standard.

I'd like to add to jarta's links, read the first part of the Christmas Bloodfest X3 it's not just implied USUK. UK himself poured out his heartache with a certain guy whom he loved and couldn't get over for hundreds of years. hell, he even sobered up just cause the idea was brought up. that's one of the shounen ai moments that really made me think, ok that one's shounen ai.

But the hints are scarce, and often used as comedy. That's only something i see in testosterone filled action-packed shounen manga... like the valentine strips, it just makes me think, aww germany, you really suck at reading people's emotion! Geez, you're jumping to conclusions Germany! things aren't like that between the two of you and you rode along. try dating France if you want to know what it's really like. Something like that came to mind. I think I'm the only one who didn't conclude about germany having a crush on italy. He's just happy to make friends and hasty to get into a relationship the moment he sees that there's something like that was bound to happen... o.O

About Chibitalia... well, everyone thought he was a girl, save for Hungary. but then again, Hungary was thought to be a boy. So it makes me think that some of the kids are just unaware of their sexuality. So if HRE knew of that, his relationship with chibitalia would probably become an overly doting brother instead. in my head, that still doesn't count as shounen ai! *A*

as for a sweden being a gay dude... there's always a one or two gay dudes out there. hell, there was a gay couple in yu yu hakusho, but that's something i'll never consider shounen ai. and don't forget, there was even a time in bleach where one macho scary arancar dude said to Byakuya "why won't you accept my love!?!?!?!" O.O so, even with a direct confession like that, I still never considered bleach to have shounen ai tendencies.... a gay dude or two or five is not enough. don't forget Sweden only acts that way to finland, so without finland there, he wouldn't be gay. and remember that finland keeps denying that he's Sweden's wifey? finland is sooo sweden's wifey but Finland killing us fans like that just makes me think, aww dammit Fin, you just blasted off my dream! and the way he denied it made me remember Kurama of YYH; ie. "it only looks that way, and if you keep insisting that I'm like that, then prepare to eat my wrath".

I've only remember reading about Japan and greece having sex in the fandom, and not the actual time I read that strip... maybe it occurred to me in an instance, but.... anybody care to add a link?

I guess I'll just conclude this: the shounen ai in APH is weak, so if you're reading this because of that tag, sorry, it might disappoint you. But it's actually there, if you look hard enough for it. APH is what you make of it, actually. If you want to see it as shounen ai, you could see it that way. If you want to see it as just plain comic relief, well, you could see it that way too.

the shounen ai may/may not be removed. I couldn't care less about it. What I want removed is the ROMANCE part. er... there's a bit of love here and there, but the manga itself isn't about love, fluff, and finding that one true love. it's a comedy a parody, fine add the shounen ai there... I can't find the romance >< the shounen ai may be weak, the romance is weaker.

[Windsong]

sorry jarta, but I'm with nethernity here. the first time I saw aph, I didn't bother with it because of it being shounen ai. then, the second time around, I actually misread the shounen ai in aph, and thought, hmm, shounen+history+comedy+slice of life=MUST TRY, MUST READ, WIN! APH would be something I'll recommend to a homophobic male friend, actually. the hints are THAT scarce

err... Actually, Nethernity, it's how you define shounen ai. Shounen ai is milder than yaoi. so, the hints there are what made it shounen ai... probably. I'm just still confused as what is shounen ai. Kuroshitsuji is filled with shounen ai-ness, but nobody ever tagged it as such. what's worse, some people are actually defending the manga to be pure shounen manga, without any trace of shounen ai at all, that it's pure fandom etc etc. you probably have read other hardcore shounen ai and based them as a standard.

I'd like to add to jarta's links, read the first part of the Christmas Bloodfest X3 it's not just implied USUK. UK himself poured out his heartache with a certain guy whom he loved and couldn't get over for hundreds of years. hell, he even sobered up just cause the idea was brought up. that's one of the shounen ai moments that really made me think, ok that one's shounen ai.

But the hints are scarce, and often used as comedy. That's only something i see in testosterone filled action-packed shounen manga... like the valentine strips, it just makes me think, aww germany, you really suck at reading people's emotion! Geez, you're jumping to conclusions Germany! things aren't like that between the two of you and you rode along. try dating France if you want to know what it's really like. Something like that came to mind. I think I'm the only one who didn't conclude about germany having a crush on italy. He's just happy to make friends and hasty to get into a relationship the moment he sees that there's something like that was bound to happen... o.O

About Chibitalia... well, everyone thought he was a girl, save for Hungary. but then again, Hungary was thought to be a boy. So it makes me think that some of the kids are just unaware of their sexuality. So if HRE knew of that, his relationship with chibitalia would probably become an overly doting brother instead. in my head, that still doesn't count as shounen ai! *A*

as for a sweden being a gay dude... there's always a one or two gay dudes out there. hell, there was a gay couple in yu yu hakusho, but that's something i'll never consider shounen ai. and don't forget, there was even a time in bleach where one macho scary arancar dude said to Byakuya "why won't you accept my love!?!?!?!" O.O so, even with a direct confession like that, I still never considered bleach to have shounen ai tendencies.... a gay dude or two or five is not enough. don't forget Sweden only acts that way to finland, so without finland there, he wouldn't be gay. and remember that finland keeps denying that he's Sweden's wifey? finland is sooo sweden's wifey but Finland killing us fans like that just makes me think, aww dammit Fin, you just blasted off my dream! and the way he denied it made me remember Kurama of YYH; ie. "it only looks that way, and if you keep insisting that I'm like that, then prepare to eat my wrath".

I've only remember reading about Japan and greece having sex in the fandom, and not the actual time I read that strip... maybe it occurred to me in an instance, but.... anybody care to add a link?

I guess I'll just conclude this: the shounen ai in APH is weak, so if you're reading this because of that tag, sorry, it might disappoint you. But it's actually there, if you look hard enough for it. APH is what you make of it, actually. If you want to see it as shounen ai, you could see it that way. If you want to see it as just plain comic relief, well, you could see it that way too.

the shounen ai may/may not be removed. I couldn't care less about it. What I want removed is the ROMANCE part. er... there's a bit of love here and there, but the manga itself isn't about love, fluff, and finding that one true love. it's a comedy a parody, fine add the shounen ai there... I can't find the romance >< the shounen ai may be weak, the romance is weaker.

One hundred percent agreement coming from me~

Also there's the Christmas special with France. Yeah.

And here's a link to the Greece and Japan thing: [link]

[Igiko]

Actually, I'd say Hetalia is the story of Germany and Italy/HRE and Chibitalia. That's the main story and the main focus. Sure, other characters get their parts, and there's even a lot of attention on England and America...but it's the story of Germany and Italy what drives the main arc. And considering how HEAVILY ladden with shonen-ai hints it is, coupled with how much nudity, gay jokes, groping and romantic hints the series has...I'd say it's VERY CLEARLY shonen-ai series.

Shonen-ai, for those who not know, is a light romance featuring two guys. CLAMP series are often shonen-ai (only exception is probably Chobits). Kaori Yuki series too.

Hetalia's main characters are two guys, and the main story is those two guys' relationship. And while it could be said that it's in the friendship sense, after Buon San Valentino it's definitely not. If you buy into the theory that Germany=HRE, and after that strip it's also impossibly to deny, we have that the two main characters KISSED and confessed their love in the past.
Then, we have Japan and Greece and their private lesson; America retiring his support because England didn't give him chocolate for Valentines, England doing so being all blushy and shy; France stripping everybody, trying to marry England, making indecent propositions to a very young Italy, groping Spain HEAVILY while Spain is oblivious (of courseXD); Spain proposing to Romano (and Romano accepting!); Sweden calling Finland his wife and outed by the author himself as gay; Russia saying Lithuania is his ex; and the obvious paralelism the anime makes between Liechtenstein and Austria in Switzerland's memories. Also features many guys touching and caressing Italy's erogenous zone.

Really, you'd be hard-pressed not finding the shounen-ai. Yes, Hetalia is a parody...but that's a plot genre. Same as a comedy/drama/tragedy can feature a het couple or a gay one, so can a parody. And in this case, we're clearly in front of a shonen-ai historical parody

[Ivveria]

@Igiko - Well Put!!

[Nethernity]

I wonder if you ever read the translated webcomics which btw is first released than the manga itself. Made by Himaruya too which means it is very much canon. Since I don't want for anyone to think that I'm "misinterpreting" anything, I must advice you to read it, especially the non-linear. ---> clicky here

Shall we start with Valentines: (includes GerIta)
http://aph.starry-sky.com/var.html
http://aph.starry-sky.com/tdn.html
http://aph.starry-sky.com/vale.html
(This is where we confirmed that Germany does have a crush in Italy)

And yes, remember Chibitalia?
There's also the confirmed sexuality of Sweden. He's gay for Finland.
Greece and Japan's had sex? Or at least very much implied.
Gay jokes rampant in the series.
There are many shounen ai-ish moments in the manga that can be considered crack or heartwarming.

You're a noob in Hetalia, aren't you?

I'm perfectly aware of the community live journal kthx, been reading hetalia since 2008 and the thing is, before I visited the fandom, I didn't know APH is shounen-ai. I intrepreted the hints as...well. as gay jokes.
and it doesn't you much credit for calling me a 'noob' in hetalia because I'm as much as a fan with hetalia as you.
and let me clear this up, the reason I don't want the shounen-Ai tag is because;
1) they were more like gay jokes than shounen-ai
2) to avoid people who doesnt like shounen-ai from not reading it.
3) ????
4> PROFIT!!!

Originally Posted by teghoune
sorry jarta, but I'm with nethernity here. the first time I saw aph, I didn't bother with it because of it being shounen ai. then, the second time around, I actually misread the shounen ai in aph, and thought, hmm, shounen+history+comedy+slice of life=MUST TRY, MUST READ, WIN! APH would be something I'll recommend to a homophobic male friend, actually. the hints are THAT scarce

err... Actually, Nethernity, it's how you define shounen ai. Shounen ai is milder than yaoi. so, the hints there are what made it shounen ai... probably. I'm just still confused as what is shounen ai. Kuroshitsuji is filled with shounen ai-ness, but nobody ever tagged it as such. what's worse, some people are actually defending the manga to be pure shounen manga, without any trace of shounen ai at all, that it's pure fandom etc etc. you probably have read other hardcore shounen ai and based them as a standard.

I'd like to add to jarta's links, read the first part of the Christmas Bloodfest X3 it's not just implied USUK. UK himself poured out his heartache with a certain guy whom he loved and couldn't get over for hundreds of years. hell, he even sobered up just cause the idea was brought up. that's one of the shounen ai moments that really made me think, ok that one's shounen ai.

But the hints are scarce, and often used as comedy. That's only something i see in testosterone filled action-packed shounen manga... like the valentine strips, it just makes me think, aww germany, you really suck at reading people's emotion! Geez, you're jumping to conclusions Germany! things aren't like that between the two of you and you rode along. try dating France if you want to know what it's really like. Something like that came to mind. I think I'm the only one who didn't conclude about germany having a crush on italy. He's just happy to make friends and hasty to get into a relationship the moment he sees that there's something like that was bound to happen... o.O

About Chibitalia... well, everyone thought he was a girl, save for Hungary. but then again, Hungary was thought to be a boy. So it makes me think that some of the kids are just unaware of their sexuality. So if HRE knew of that, his relationship with chibitalia would probably become an overly doting brother instead. in my head, that still doesn't count as shounen ai! *A*

as for a sweden being a gay dude... there's always a one or two gay dudes out there. hell, there was a gay couple in yu yu hakusho, but that's something i'll never consider shounen ai. and don't forget, there was even a time in bleach where one macho scary arancar dude said to Byakuya "why won't you accept my love!?!?!?!" O.O so, even with a direct confession like that, I still never considered bleach to have shounen ai tendencies.... a gay dude or two or five is not enough. don't forget Sweden only acts that way to finland, so without finland there, he wouldn't be gay. and remember that finland keeps denying that he's Sweden's wifey? finland is sooo sweden's wifey but Finland killing us fans like that just makes me think, aww dammit Fin, you just blasted off my dream! and the way he denied it made me remember Kurama of YYH; ie. "it only looks that way, and if you keep insisting that I'm like that, then prepare to eat my wrath".

I've only remember reading about Japan and greece having sex in the fandom, and not the actual time I read that strip... maybe it occurred to me in an instance, but.... anybody care to add a link?

I guess I'll just conclude this: the shounen ai in APH is weak, so if you're reading this because of that tag, sorry, it might disappoint you. But it's actually there, if you look hard enough for it. APH is what you make of it, actually. If you want to see it as shounen ai, you could see it that way. If you want to see it as just plain comic relief, well, you could see it that way too.

the shounen ai may/may not be removed. I couldn't care less about it. What I want removed is the ROMANCE part. er... there's a bit of love here and there, but the manga itself isn't about love, fluff, and finding that one true love. it's a comedy a parody, fine add the shounen ai there... I can't find the romance >< the shounen ai may be weak, the romance is weaker.

I want the romance part to be removed too,
Hetalia is more like 'Comedy and Historical'
and the first time I read hetalia in the community live journal, there wasn't any shounen-ai tag in it to heed as a warning, because there really isnt a shounen ai in it, it was just implied which doesnt make aph into a shounen ai, like what you wrote in your earlier post. Hell, I got a heart attack when I first visited the fandom and there were yaoi everywhere lawlz.
but the thing is, Im actually tolerant of shounen ai now because of Hetalia(fandom). (i.e england and america, though I like seeing them more as family)
I want the tag to be removed to avoid more cases of people misintrepeting this brilliant series as pure shounen--ai.
btw i didint touch any shounen ai before hetalia,
and now, well now, i still dont like it though hetalia fandom has been succesful in making me wanna touch em.



@ALL
and, mangafox only add vol1 and 2 and there were no shounen ai in it, not even hints,
take it off dammit im trying to make my brother read it lawz

[jarta]

@nethernity:
I'm sorry if I have offended you but I was annoyed at that time I posted by this:

and besides, all the shounen-ai came from the fandom...

As a BL fan and a multishipper with majority of my preferred pairings is yaoi. I have encountered worse stuffs than that but it never fails to annoy me. I hate it when yaoi fangirls thinks that what's in the fandom is canon and I hate it when people mistook what's canon as only "fanon". Even as a fandom fan I am completely aware of what's Canon which btw you aren't apparently when you said that this is not shounen ai. And no, contrary to popular belief that shounen ai only applies to Gay Romance with no sex, it does not. As long as there are guys who like each othe romantically in the series then it would be considered shounen ai. As for people not reading this, it's their fault and their lost. I wouldn't like to lie just so people would read it.

Mangafox only added Vol 1 and Vol 2 but and there is hardly shounen ai there. But deluding yourself that Hetalia has no shounen ai and I do believe there would be in the future chapters is just not right. What's bad with shounen ai, btw? I'm sick of it when great stories got avoided just because it has gay undertones. And apparently we have to lie and say hey its not shounen ai so that people would read it. Just tell your brother that there's no french kissing between guys here.

@teghoune: Kuroshitsuji is a shounen series. It might be slashable but it's shounen. The difference between a shounen ai and a slashable series is that in the slashable series, there are bonds and moments that can be thought of as shounen ai moments but they cannot be considered true shounen ai since the characters themselves doesn't have "romantic feelings for each other". They just are thrown into a lot of shounen aish moments.That's why Kuroshitsuji is not shounen ai.
Hetalia is shounen ai, as Igiko has said. and the fact that Germany clearly has a crush in Italy. And that Sweden and Finland is already considered a canon couple.

[Igiko]

I
and let me clear this up, the reason I don't want the shounen-Ai tag is because;
1) they were more like gay jokes than shounen-ai
2) to avoid people who doesnt like shounen-ai from not reading it.
3) ????
4> PROFIT!!!

Don't take this the wrong way, but...aren't those reasons extremely superficial and prejudiced? First, gay jokes they may be sometimes, but there's absolutely nothing supposedly humorous in Chibitalia's and HRE's touching separation; nor is it in the emotional arc of Cleaning the Storage. And, as I said, considering the series IS about Germany and Italy, the focus is on the relationship, and so nor the shonen-ai (since they're both boys) nor the romance angel can be removed.
And may I also mention that, if these supossed "jokes" were between a male and a female, then you'd probably be all over them and saying they're about love? certainly, you wouldn't refer to them as "het jokes"
Considering there's no main het pairing in the series (the closest is Austria/Hungary, but it's so minor that you can't call it main), and ALL the important relationships are between men...maybe they aren't jokes so much as plot development/characters development/story-building?

Himaruya has promised the fandom that Chibitalia and HRE will have "a happy ending". If that isn't a good indicator...

Second, people don't wanna read something because it's shonen-ai? With all due respect, F**K THEM! That's their problem, not mine. If people are so prejudiced towards a genre, frankly, I don't want them in my fandom. And changing the tag could make us loose wonderful non-prejudiced people who like shonen-ai.

I don't know what to say about the last ones...

and the first time I read hetalia in the community live journal, there wasn't any shounen-ai tag in it to heed as a warning, because there really isnt a shounen ai in it, it was just implied which doesnt make aph into a shounen ai, like what you wrote in your earlier post. Hell, I got a heart attack when I first visited the fandom and there were yaoi everywhere lawlz.

I wonder why you'd get a heart attack about seeing yaoi...methinks you might be prejudiced too?
Anywway, there's absolutely nothing shocking about a manga series with a mainly yaoi fandom when the cast is 99% gorgeous men, like in Hetalia. And even less if there's male nudity, males disrobbing males and propositioning, etc. There's LOTS of shonen-ai in the series, so much that you'd be hardpressed finding any male bond with more than 5 strips that's purely platonic.

I want the tag to be removed to avoid more cases of people misintrepeting this brilliant series as pure shounen--ai.

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. That's like saying "remove any indication that a series could have heterosexual romance in case anyone is squimish about that". Again, f**k them. Their problem, if they have prejudices. Their loss for being like that.
Nothing's PURE anything. Like any good series, it's a mix of things, mostly shonen-ai parody of history, in this case, with touches of educational stuff and some touching strips.

btw i didint touch any shounen ai before hetalia,

No ****ing kidding, pardon me

and now, well now, i still dont like it though hetalia fandom has been succesful in making me wanna touch em.

Maybe you should stick to that promising open-minding instead of trying to revert to "baaaa shonen-ai is bad" ways?

@ALL
and, mangafox only add vol1 and 2 and there were no shounen ai in it, not even hints,
take it off dammit im trying to make my brother read it lawz

Try making your brother open-minded instead of making things easy for close-minded bigots, if you pardon me saying so

[xFlame990]

Q: Why shounen-ai?

A: Because it's awesome like that.